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  Msg # 22325 of 22404 on FRBER180, Wednesday 7-21-26, 8:56  
  From: RICHARD KETTLEWELL  
  To: ALL  
  Subj: Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk)  
  rbowman  writes:  
  > druck wrote:  
  >> It didn't work very well because for inexplicable reasons other distros  
  >> (including otherwise sensible ones, and I'm looking at you Debian) have  
  >> adopted Red Hat's poison chalice(s).  
  >  
  > The reasons are rather explicable. Remember Upstart? Debian had a long  
  > discussion about whether to switch to Upstart or systemd from  
  > sysVinit. Systemd won. Ubuntu wasn't that attached to their own dog  
  > food and switche d from Upstart to systemd. Fedora also switched from  
  > Upstart to systemd. Upstart has been on life support for about 8  
  > years.  
    
  Debian?s decision was deeply contested within the project, but the  
  reasoning is well documented.  
    
  I suspect Upstart is abandonware now.  
    
  > Runit is another attempt to replace sysV. It's the default on antiX and  
  > Void and can be used with a couple of others. MX didn't follow antiX and  
  > defaults to sysV with systemd as an option.  
  >  
  > Distribution maintainers were looking for an alternative to sysV that  
  > allowed more flexibility. At least two replacements other than systemd  
  > were available. systemd won.  
    
  IIRC there were upwards of a dozen attempts to replace sysvinit,  
  although only handful that ever reached meaningful levels of adoption  
  (Upstart, systemd, OpenRC; plus launchd if we look beyond Linux).  
    
  --  
  https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/  
    
  --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18  
   * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)  
     

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