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   alt.engineering.electrical      Electrical engineering discussion forum      2,548 messages   

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   Message 2,452 of 2,548   
   Dimitris Tzortzakakis to All   
   Re: 3 more inconvenient facts about elec   
   11 Jan 23 21:26:19   
   
   From: noone@nospam.com   
      
   Στις 11/1/2023 6:01 μ.μ., ο/η Dimitris Tzortzakakis έγραψε:   
   > Στις 8/1/2023 9:51 μ.μ., ο/η Leroy N. Soetoro έγραψε:   
   >> https://dailyangle.com/articles/3-more-inconvenient-facts-about-electric-   
   >> cars   
   >>   
   >> Politicians praise electric cars. If everyone buys them, they say, solar   
   >> and wind power will replace our need for oil.   
   >>   
   >> But that's absurd.   
   >>   
   >> Here is the rest of my list of "inconvenient facts" about electric cars.   
   >>   
   >> "The future of the auto industry is electric," says President Joe Biden.   
   >> He assumes a vast improvement in batteries. Better batteries are crucial   
   >> because both power plants and cars need to store lots of electric power.   
   >>   
   >> But here's inconvenient fact 3: Batteries are lousy at storing large   
   >> amounts of energy.   
   >>   
   >> "Batteries leak, and they don't hold a lot," says physicist Mark Mills.   
   >>   
   >> Mills thinks electric cars are great but explains that "oil begins with a   
   >> huge advantage: 5,000% more energy in it per pound. Electric car   
   >> batteries   
   >> weigh 1,000 pounds. Those 1,000 pounds replace just 80 pounds of   
   >> gasoline."   
   >>   
   >> But future batteries will be better, I point out.   
   >>   
   >> "Engineers are really good at making things better," Mills responds, "but   
   >> they can't make them better than the laws of physics permit."   
   >>   
   >> That's inconvenient fact 4. Miracle batteries powerful enough to replace   
   >> fossil fuels are a fantasy.   
   >>   
   >> "Because nature is not nice to humans," explains Mills, "we store energy   
   >> for when it's cold or really hot. People who imagine an energy transition   
   >> want to build windmills and solar panels and store all that energy in   
   >> batteries. But if you do the arithmetic, you find you'd need to build   
   >> about a hundred trillion dollars' worth of batteries to store the same   
   >> amount of energy that Europe has in storage now for this winter. It would   
   >> take the world's battery factories 400 years to manufacture that many   
   >> batteries."   
   >>   
   >> Politicians don't mention that when they promise every car will be   
   >> electric. They also don't mention that the electric grid is limited.   
   >>   
   >> This summer, California officials were so worried about blackouts they   
   >> asked electric vehicle owners to stop charging cars!   
   >>   
   >> Yet today, few of California's cars are electric. Gov. Gavin Newsom   
   >> ordered that all new cars must be electric by 2035! Where does he think   
   >> he'll get the electricity to power them?   
   >>   
   >> "Roughly speaking, you have to double your electric grid to move the   
   >> energy out of gasoline into the electric sector," says Mills. "No one is   
   >> planning to double the electric grid, so they'll be rationing."   
   >>   
   >> Rationing. That means some places will simply turn off some of the power.   
   >> That's our final inconvenient fact: We just don't have enough electricity   
   >> for all electric cars.   
   >>   
   >> Worse, if (as many activists and politicians propose) we try to get that   
   >> electricity from 100% renewable sources, the rationing would be deadly.   
   >>   
   >> "Even if you cover the entire continent of the United States with solar   
   >> panels, you wouldn't supply half of America's electricity," Mills points   
   >> out.   
   >>   
   >> Even if you added "Washington Monument-sized wind turbines spread over an   
   >> area six times greater than the state of New York, that wouldn't be   
   >> enough."   
   >>   
   >> This is just math and physics. It's amazing supposedly responsible people   
   >> promote impossible fantasies.   
   >>   
   >> "It's been an extraordinary accomplishment of propaganda," complains   
   >> Mills, "almost infantile ... distressing because it's so silly."   
   >>   
   >> Even if people invent much better cars, wind turbines, solar panels,   
   >> power   
   >> lines and batteries, explains Mills, "you're still drilling things,   
   >> digging up stuff. You're still building machines that wear out. … It's   
   >> not   
   >> magical transformation."   
   >>   
   >> Even worse, today politicians make us pay more for energy while   
   >> forcing us   
   >> to do things that hurt the environment. Their restrictions on fossil   
   >> fuels   
   >> drive people to use fuels that pollute more.   
   >>   
   >> In Europe: "They're going back to burning coal! What we've done is have   
   >> our energy systems designed by bureaucrats instead of engineers,"   
   >> complains Mills. "We get worse energy, more expensive energy and higher   
   >> environmental impacts!"   
   >>   
   >> I like electric cars. But I won't pretend that driving one makes me some   
   >> kind of environmental hero.   
   >>   
   >> "There'll be lots more electric cars in the future," concludes Mills.   
   >> "There should be, because that'll reduce demand for oil, which is a good   
   >> thing. But when you do the math, to operate a society with 5 or 6 billion   
   >> people who are living in poverty we can't imagine, when you want to give   
   >> them a little of what we have, the energy demands are off the charts big.   
   >> We're going to need everything."   
   >>   
   >> That includes fossil fuels.   
   >>   
   >> Every Tuesday at JohnStossel.com, Stossel posts a new video about the   
   >> battle between government and freedom.   
   >>   
   >> SUPPORT TRUTHFUL JOURNALISM. MAKE A DONATION TO THE NONPROFIT WND NEWS   
   >> CENTER. THANK YOU!   
   >>   
   >> The post 3 more inconvenient facts about electric cars appeared first on   
   >> WND.   
   >>   
   > condition could be even worse. let's assume that Crete (the island where   
   > I live in in southern Greece) has 500,000 cars (it has almost 500,000   
   > inhabitants). The worst case scenario is that all cars would charge at   
   > the same time. Thus 500,000 * 11 kW =5,5 GW. With an efficiency factor   
   > of 50 % that would make 11 GVA, with a reactive power of 5,5 GVAr!!!   
   > The peak power in Crete is 800 MW in summer with all power stations   
   > working round the clock full throttle, and all wind turbines   
   > photovoltaics etc. I have noticed that despite the wind turbines etc.   
   > the power station of Linoperamata (very near the city I live) is working   
   > full throttle with the oldest unit commisioned in 1966!! and burning   
   > mostly heavy fuel (mazut) and diesel for the gas turbines. and despite   
   > the wind turbine hype electricity is as expensive as ever. so that would   
   > need an 1000 % grow in the grid!! 10 times as much!! the peak of   
   > continental Greece is ¬10 GW with much more possible sources of   
   > generation (lignite, hydro, natural gas, imports from other countries   
   > etc.).   
   >   
   what's more about batteries-a mobile phone battery stores Wh. A car   
   battery stores kWh. A truck (!!!) battery or a railway locomotive (!!)   
   would store MWh. a million times that of a mobile phone!! And in grid   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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