XPost: alt.atheism, alt.transgendered, soc.support.transgendered   
   XPost: alt.support.depression   
   From: jeo@somewhere.org   
      
   On 2022-02-14 13:29, KWills wrote:   
   > On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 12:52:52 -0500, aaa  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 2022-02-14 12:22, KWills wrote:   
   >>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 09:21:02 -0500, aaa  wrote:   
   >   
   >>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about the logic I have shown in the above.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> It's flawed.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Why?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Because what God allows or ignores is entirely up to God.  What is   
   >>>>>>> reserved for Heaven may not be appropriate for Earth.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Are you saying that God's law is conditional depending on whether it's   
   >>>>>> applied to heaven or earth? Where is the justice in that?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> How God applies God's law is up to Him.  Is that too difficult to   
   >>>>> understand?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Nothing difficult to understand. It's called justice. Is it difficult to   
   >>>> understand justice?   
   >>>   
   >>> Justice for those who have graduated to Heaven is different from   
   >>> justice handed out on Earth.   
   >>   
   >> Nonsense. It's the same God's law.   
   >   
   > He can hand it out how He chooses.  Do you expect Him to give people   
   > in Hell justice?   
      
   According to the truth, absolutely. It's why no one can complain about   
   God's judgment.   
      
   >   
   >>   Otherwise, why would anyone want to go to   
   >>> Heaven?   
   >>   
   >> Because it's God's grace and precious gift of life.   
   >   
   > And if it was the same as Earth, as you seem to suggest, why would   
   > anyone give a shit?   
      
   It isn't the same as the fallen Earth. It's the infallible heavenly life.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>         God is omnipotent, He can do whatever the fuck He   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wants, wherever He wants.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Allowing bad things is not being omnipotent. Omnipotence means   
   there is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> no bad thing possible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Omnipotence means *anything* is possible.  That's what 'omni'   
   means!   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Since God is good, omnipotence means God has made all things good.   
   >>>>>>>>>> therefore, there is no bad thing left.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> And yet lots of bad things abound.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> They have nothing to do with God.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Of course they do.  He didn't stop them happening, did He?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You don't know that. That is only your presumption.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> If He had stopped them happening, they wouldn't have happened, would   
   >>>>> they?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> That is exactly why there is no sin or evil in heaven.   
   >>>   
   >>> Because God exercises His powers in Heaven in a way He doesn't do on   
   >>> Earth!   
   >>   
   >> Pure speculation.   
   >   
   > Far from it.  In Heaven, we are taught that all is Good.  Not so on   
   > Earth.  Same God, different rules.   
      
   Heaven is good but not because of different rules.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>> God is like the sun,   
   >>>>>> and evil is like the darkness of the night. Whenever there is the sun,   
   >>>>>> there can't be the darkness of the night.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> And yet the darkness of the night inevitably follows the light of day.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The sun will always shine.   
   >>>   
   >>> Until you can't see it and it gets dark.   
   >>   
   >> That is only the illusion on Earth.   
   >   
   > So what do YOU see when it gets dark?   
      
   It doesn't matter whether I can see the sun.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>>>>>> That is not an answer to my question. Where is the logic for   
   someone to   
   >>>>>>>>>> do good without believing good in the first place?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is something intrinsic in human nature that wants to do   
   >>>>>>>>> good?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> You need to justify the logic.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> No, I don't.  It's fundamental human behaviour.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Then it's only an illogical behavior.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> There's nothing illogical about it.  It is what it is.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> That's empty claim. You don't even dare to face the logic.   
   >>>   
   >>> Speaking of empty claims, what about your claim that Jesus said only   
   >>> God is good?   
   >>   
   >> It's not a claim. It's fact.   
   >   
   > In that case, provide the cite.  Until you do, it remains an   
   > unsupported claim.   
      
   I don't need to support a fact. Fact is already evident, and it's your   
   responsibility to verify.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be clear, the bad thing in this fallen world is not by   
   God's   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission. The bad thing is the result and the consequence   
   of human   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sin. Since sin is never by the permission of God, the   
   result of human   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sin should never be by the permission of God either.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does not interfere to stop sin.  Why can't He?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because the sinner doesn't want to repent his sin to turn   
   back to God.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God clearly has more clout than some deluded sinner.  Yet He   
   chooses   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no to exercise that clout.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't know that. You don't know what God has planned for   
   everyone,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and God does have a perfect plan for everyone.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have said before that God has no plan:  He doesn't interfere.    
   He   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> lets Nature take its course, whatever that course turns out to   
   be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> I believe differently. I believe God sees all and knows all with   
   great   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> wisdom and love for all his creations. Therefore, God must have a   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> perfect plan for everyone.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> That perfect plan is a hands off non-interference platform.  We see   
   >>>>>>>>>>> the results every day.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> I have no idea what you are talking about.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> There is no perfect plan for everyone because God does not interfere.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> That is only your ignorance speaking. Without God interfering by   
   giving   
   >>>>>>>> his support, the world wouldn't exist, and life wouldn't function.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> You're talking about Creation. OK, we know He created the Earth. After   
   >>>>>>> that it was all hands off.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> That is only an assumption.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> We see the effects all around us, so there is empirical evidence.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's only a make believe.   
   >>>   
   >>> It's reality.  Deal with it.   
   >>   
   >> Make believe is no reality.   
   >   
   > Reality is not make believe.   
      
   It's no reality.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are we clear?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Far from it.  Your theological views have long been   
   discounted by just   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about every major religion.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly what theological view are you talking about? I have no   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theological view.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You've just been spouting them.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
      
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