XPost: alt.atheism, alt.transgendered, soc.support.transgendered   
   XPost: alt.support.depression   
   From: jeo@somewhere.org   
      
   On 2022-02-14 21:29, KWills wrote:   
   > On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 20:00:54 -0500, aaa  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 2022-02-14 13:29, KWills wrote:   
   >>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 12:52:52 -0500, aaa  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 2022-02-14 12:22, KWills wrote:   
   >>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 09:21:02 -0500, aaa  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking about the logic I have shown in the above.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> It's flawed.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Why?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Because what God allows or ignores is entirely up to God.  What is   
   >>>>>>>>> reserved for Heaven may not be appropriate for Earth.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Are you saying that God's law is conditional depending on whether it's   
   >>>>>>>> applied to heaven or earth? Where is the justice in that?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> How God applies God's law is up to Him.  Is that too difficult to   
   >>>>>>> understand?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Nothing difficult to understand. It's called justice. Is it difficult to   
   >>>>>> understand justice?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Justice for those who have graduated to Heaven is different from   
   >>>>> justice handed out on Earth.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Nonsense. It's the same God's law.   
   >>>   
   >>> He can hand it out how He chooses.  Do you expect Him to give people   
   >>> in Hell justice?   
   >>   
   >> According to the truth, absolutely.   
   >   
   > What does that even mean?   
      
   It's justice based on truth. Is there anything wrong about that?   
      
   >   
   >> It's why no one can complain about   
   >> God's judgment.   
   >   
   > Tell that to the people in Hell.   
      
   They can't deny the truth, so they have to accept the judgment.   
      
   >   
   >>>>    Otherwise, why would anyone want to go to   
   >>>>> Heaven?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Because it's God's grace and precious gift of life.   
   >>>   
   >>> And if it was the same as Earth, as you seem to suggest, why would   
   >>> anyone give a shit?   
   >>   
   >> It isn't the same as the fallen Earth. It's the infallible heavenly life.   
   >   
   > And it works by different rules than Earth.   
      
   God's law is always the same to everyone.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>          God is omnipotent, He can do whatever the fuck He   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants, wherever He wants.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allowing bad things is not being omnipotent. Omnipotence means   
   there is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> no bad thing possible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Omnipotence means *anything* is possible.  That's what 'omni'   
   means!   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Since God is good, omnipotence means God has made all things good.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> therefore, there is no bad thing left.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> And yet lots of bad things abound.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> They have nothing to do with God.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Of course they do.  He didn't stop them happening, did He?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> You don't know that. That is only your presumption.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> If He had stopped them happening, they wouldn't have happened, would   
   >>>>>>> they?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> That is exactly why there is no sin or evil in heaven.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Because God exercises His powers in Heaven in a way He doesn't do on   
   >>>>> Earth!   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Pure speculation.   
   >>>   
   >>> Far from it.  In Heaven, we are taught that all is Good.  Not so on   
   >>> Earth.  Same God, different rules.   
   >>   
   >> Heaven is good but not because of different rules.   
   >   
   > God has MADE Heaven good...unlike Earth.   
      
   Not according to the Bible. The Bible says God made the Earth good.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>>>> God is like the sun,   
   >>>>>>>> and evil is like the darkness of the night. Whenever there is the sun,   
   >>>>>>>> there can't be the darkness of the night.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> And yet the darkness of the night inevitably follows the light of day.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> The sun will always shine.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Until you can't see it and it gets dark.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> That is only the illusion on Earth.   
   >>>   
   >>> So what do YOU see when it gets dark?   
   >>   
   >> It doesn't matter whether I can see the sun.   
   >   
   > But you can see the darkness of the night, can't you?  That's where   
   > the evil lies.   
      
   It's only an illusion.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> That is not an answer to my question. Where is the logic for   
   someone to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> do good without believing good in the first place?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is something intrinsic in human nature that wants to   
   do   
   >>>>>>>>>>> good?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> You need to justify the logic.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> No, I don't.  It's fundamental human behaviour.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Then it's only an illogical behavior.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> There's nothing illogical about it.  It is what it is.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> That's empty claim. You don't even dare to face the logic.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Speaking of empty claims, what about your claim that Jesus said only   
   >>>>> God is good?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's not a claim. It's fact.   
   >>>   
   >>> In that case, provide the cite.  Until you do, it remains an   
   >>> unsupported claim.   
   >>   
   >> I don't need to support a fact. Fact is already evident, and it's your   
   >> responsibility to verify.   
   >   
   > You presented it as an assertion.  It becomes a fact after you've   
   > proved it, which remains your responsibility.  Pretty basic stuff, eh?   
   > Why not just admit you made it up and move on?   
      
   That's your misunderstanding. It's already a fact. I can't make a fact   
   less than a fact. It will always be a fact no matter what I do.   
      
   >   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be clear, the bad thing in this fallen world is not by   
   God's   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission. The bad thing is the result and the   
   consequence of human   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sin. Since sin is never by the permission of God, the   
   result of human   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sin should never be by the permission of God either.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does not interfere to stop sin.  Why can't He?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because the sinner doesn't want to repent his sin to turn   
   back to God.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God clearly has more clout than some deluded sinner.  Yet He   
   chooses   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no to exercise that clout.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't know that. You don't know what God has planned for   
   everyone,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and God does have a perfect plan for everyone.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have said before that God has no plan:  He doesn't   
   interfere.  He   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lets Nature take its course, whatever that course turns out to   
   be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe differently. I believe God sees all and knows all   
   with great   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wisdom and love for all his creations. Therefore, God must have   
   a   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfect plan for everyone.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
      
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