XPost: misc.education   
   From: hrubin@skew.stat.purdue.edu   
      
   On 2012-11-24, conklin  wrote:   
      
   > "Herman Rubin"  wrote in message   
   > news:slrnkavn2r.oks.hrubin@skew.stat.purdue.edu...   
   >> On 2012-11-22, conklin  wrote:   
      
   >>> "Herman Rubin"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:slrnkaqf4k.q8a.hrubin@skew.stat.purdue.edu...   
   >>>>>> Until charter schools can't pick and choose their students any   
   >>>>>> comparisons   
   >>>>>> are unfair and irrelevant.   
      
   >>>> This is ridiculous and stupid.  Those of different abilities   
   >>>> SHOULD be going to different schools.  They also should not be   
   >>>> grouped by age, but allowed to go at the rates they can in   
   >>>> different subjects.   
      
      
   >>>     Have you ever read "Summerhill"?  Neil said he could teach anyone   
   >>> teenager everything he needed to get into Oxford in 3 years.  He actually   
   >>> did do that, many times.  He accepted into his boarding school students   
   >>> who   
   >>> refused to learn up until then, and let them sit around the same way   
   >>> until   
   >>> they started to learn. The longest holdout was 3 years.   
      
   >> Students who refuse to learn can change.  Students without the   
   >> ability to learn at a given pace cannot overcome that.   
      
   >> I have two children, both with doctorates.  Their abilities in   
   >> different subjects were often incomparable.  Attempts to teach   
   >> the one weaker in mathematics, who is still better than most   
   >> college students, the same way the better one learned were   
   >> unsuccessful.   
      
      
   >     I'm not sure that the pace of learning is the main issue Herman.  You   
   > see in med school, for example, the pace is fast but grades do not correlate   
   > at all with producing a good MD later.  Why?  Because life is about puzzles   
   > which evolve slowly, and not with easy answers either.  UCR is the opposite   
   > of learning, but that is what schools teach.  The abilities pushed in high   
   > school are often the opposite of learning, but are rewarded.  As for   
   > medicare care in the real world, other nations have been much better at   
   > lowering death rates than we have.  We tend to blame that on the individual,   
   > but put successes on the system, i.e. fee-for-service.   
      
   I am not discussing memorization and rregurgitation learning,   
   but learning with understanding.  College sturdents today are   
   so imbued with the trivial pursuit type of learning that they   
   object to being taught the concepts.  The common response is,   
   "Don't teach me the `theory'!  Just tell me how to do the problems   
   which will be on the exam."   
      
   I refuse to teach that way, or examine that way, and I assure you   
   that most of my students hate me for that.  Many of those will   
   never understand that straightforward answers to textbook type   
   problems suitable for multiple choice or short answer testing   
   are not what are needed for application in the real world.   
      
   Can we do better testing?  Yes, but only if the examinations are   
   problem examinations, and the grade is not on the answer but the   
   ability to approach the problem and to follow the partial results.   
      
      
      
      
   --   
   This address is for information only.  I do not claim that these views   
   are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.   
   Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University   
   hrubin@stat.purdue.edu         Phone: (765)494-6054   FAX: (765)494-0558   
      
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