XPost: misc.education   
   From: hrubin@skew.stat.purdue.edu   
      
   On 2012-11-24, conklin  wrote:   
      
   > "Herman Rubin"  wrote in message   
   > news:slrnkb2cfk.b3r.hrubin@skew.stat.purdue.edu...   
   >> On 2012-11-24, conklin  wrote:   
      
   >>> "Herman Rubin"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:slrnkavn2r.oks.hrubin@skew.stat.purdue.edu...   
   >>>> On 2012-11-22, conklin  wrote:   
      
   >>>>> "Herman Rubin"  wrote in message   
   >>>>> news:slrnkaqf4k.q8a.hrubin@skew.stat.purdue.edu...   
   >>>>>>>> Until charter schools can't pick and choose their students any   
   >>>>>>>> comparisons   
   >>>>>>>> are unfair and irrelevant.   
      
   >>>>>> This is ridiculous and stupid.  Those of different abilities   
   >>>>>> SHOULD be going to different schools.  They also should not be   
   >>>>>> grouped by age, but allowed to go at the rates they can in   
   >>>>>> different subjects.   
      
      
   >>>>>     Have you ever read "Summerhill"?  Neil said he could teach anyone   
   >>>>> teenager everything he needed to get into Oxford in 3 years.  He   
   >>>>> actually   
   >>>>> did do that, many times.  He accepted into his boarding school students   
   >>>>> who   
   >>>>> refused to learn up until then, and let them sit around the same way   
   >>>>> until   
   >>>>> they started to learn. The longest holdout was 3 years.   
      
   >>>> Students who refuse to learn can change.  Students without the   
   >>>> ability to learn at a given pace cannot overcome that.   
      
   >>>> I have two children, both with doctorates.  Their abilities in   
   >>>> different subjects were often incomparable.  Attempts to teach   
   >>>> the one weaker in mathematics, who is still better than most   
   >>>> college students, the same way the better one learned were   
   >>>> unsuccessful.   
      
      
   >>>     I'm not sure that the pace of learning is the main issue Herman.  You   
   >>> see in med school, for example, the pace is fast but grades do not   
   >>> correlate   
   >>> at all with producing a good MD later.  Why?  Because life is about   
   >>> puzzles   
   >>> which evolve slowly, and not with easy answers either.  UCR is the   
   >>> opposite   
   >>> of learning, but that is what schools teach.  The abilities pushed in   
   >>> high   
   >>> school are often the opposite of learning, but are rewarded.  As for   
   >>> medicare care in the real world, other nations have been much better at   
   >>> lowering death rates than we have.  We tend to blame that on the   
   >>> individual,   
   >>> but put successes on the system, i.e. fee-for-service.   
      
   >> I am not discussing memorization and rregurgitation learning,   
   >> but learning with understanding.  College sturdents today are   
   >> so imbued with the trivial pursuit type of learning that they   
   >> object to being taught the concepts.  The common response is,   
   >> "Don't teach me the `theory'!  Just tell me how to do the problems   
   >> which will be on the exam."   
      
   >> I refuse to teach that way, or examine that way, and I assure you   
   >> that most of my students hate me for that.  Many of those will   
   >> never understand that straightforward answers to textbook type   
   >> problems suitable for multiple choice or short answer testing   
   >> are not what are needed for application in the real world.   
      
   >> Can we do better testing?  Yes, but only if the examinations are   
   >> problem examinations, and the grade is not on the answer but the   
   >> ability to approach the problem and to follow the partial results.   
      
   > Like going to the supermarket and asking for your bill in base 8?   
      
   Not at all.  The arithmetic is the LEAST important part of the   
   problem.  It is knowing what can and cannot be done, and being   
   able to make a reasonable attack on the problem.  If errors are   
   made at intermediate steps, those will be marked wrong, and the   
   remainder of the analysis graded as if there were no errors,   
   using the incorrect values obtained as if they were correct.   
      
   If a student found something statistically significant, and then   
   said that it could be neglected without giving further and better   
   reasons, I would mark this as completely wrong.  I know what   
   statistical significance means, and I would never use it for   
   any practical purpose.   
      
      
   --   
   This address is for information only.  I do not claim that these views   
   are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.   
   Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University   
   hrubin@stat.purdue.edu         Phone: (765)494-6054   FAX: (765)494-0558   
      
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