XPost: soc.culture.jewish   
   From: joshb@xs4all.nl   
      
   On 2020-01-15, rbowman  wrote:   
   > On 01/15/2020 04:29 AM, Jos Boersema wrote:   
   >> Some blueprint (not). Now tell us your view on the taking of America,   
   >> what blueprint where you following. 'Manifest destiny,' it was   
   >> 'manifest' that everything belongs to you ? That makes sense, I guess.   
   >> Right ? Because, why not.   
   >   
   > You do realize manifest destiny was controversial even in 1840, with the   
   > Democrats in favor and the Whigs opposing it? Personally I think it and   
   > the whole concept of American exceptionalism are a fine example of hubris.   
      
   I didn't know how widespread it was, so thanks for that bit of history   
   (it is always interesting to know more about history). Broadly speaking   
   the policy of 'America first' (^H^H I mean) 'Manifest Destiny' (that the   
   USA would rule America (and then the World) as the Master Race), was in   
   effect one way or the other, and certainly not only by the immigrants to   
   America. Many European Nations where doing it, including the   
   Netherlands.   
      
   The Phoenicians had a vast Empire, certainly for that early time.   
   Egypt, Babylon, the Persions, Greeks, all Empires.   
   Rome had a global Empire, obviously.   
   Venice had a global Empire of trade.   
   The Spanish had a global Empire of trade (Colonies).   
   The French had Colonies.   
   The Dutch had a global Empire of trade (Colonies).   
   The British have had a long lasting world Empire.   
   The USA took over when they defeated the European Nations in World War 2.   
   I'm sure I forget a lot of them.   
      
   Conspiquously did not have an Empire: the Jewish people, the Swiss.   
   That despite their high standing culture.   
      
   The Jewish people had all the laws needed to free their people, free up   
   their work and creativity, trade, to end up being powerful. They where   
   powerful, and in the end only they could ruin themselves as they did by   
   breaking with the Torah law and putting a sundisk idol on the 2nd Temple   
   shortly before it was destroyed ('Lamp of Helena'). They had the most   
   powerful rebellions within the Roman Empire, even though they had   
   already ruined themselves from the inside out.   
      
   The Swiss is basically the only democratic serious country in the world.   
   Being landlocked is not helpful to build an Empire, but in any case they   
   didn't do it. Their democracy and hence absence of large scale   
   repression and other idiocy, should mean they are a powerful people.   
   They did manage to survive being right next to Nazi Germany and Fascist   
   Italy.   
      
   So: you can blame the Jewish people all you want, but it isn't true with   
   the serious evidence that nobody can contest. You can say all you want   
   about convoluted things that are hard to proof, but the Jewish people as   
   a whole is what you are attacking, and this Nation is old enough to have   
   a known track record. Nobody can deny that Rome has had an Empire, for   
   example, and nobody does deny it. This says something about the Romans   
   and by extension the Italians (etc). The Jewish people didn't build an   
   Empire, once they had the land that they where granted and conquered.   
   It just isn't there.   
      
   Then to complain about the Jewish people generally (I'm not saying you   
   shouldn't complaign about individuals of whatever nationality, but then   
   do so by name), while coming from the biggest world Empire that rules   
   today … it doesn't compute. It sort of shows how you are part of the   
   Imperial domination propaganda if you still blame someone else for the   
   USA Empire you live in. Everyone knows the USA is Imperial and   
   absolutely vicious whenever it thinks that serves its bottom line.   
      
   > The genesis of both can be found in the Calvinism of the ruling class.   
      
   How about something more basic: greed. Greed needs excuses, and for some   
   those excuses could be clothes in Calvinism.   
      
   > Calvinist have a tendency to think they are the Chosen People,   
   > particularly the fringe that adopts some form of British Israelism. That   
   > idea is alive and well, even morphing into the Black Hebrew Israelites   
   > who are attacking Orthodox Jews in the NYC area.   
      
   Wow yes, that is so crazy … just another attack on the Jewish people   
   I guess.   
      
   > The bible thumpers of the US were following the same blueprint as   
   > Joshua. Every fruit of that tree is poisoned including Christianity and   
   > Islam.   
      
   I see the point you try to make, that these people inspired their   
   Imperialism from the Torah ? Which Joshua are you speaking about ? Isn't   
   Joshua the name of a later prophet, or do you mean 'Jehoshua ben Nun'   
   who took over from Mozes, to complete the conquest and divide the land   
   to all by tribe and person, which is potentially one of the most   
   important things that happened on Earth since the end of the last Ice   
   age 10 000 years ago.   
      
   There had been Empires long before that happened, both in history and in   
   the story (blueprint, if you will). The Jewish people did not expand   
   after that (to my knownledge). They never did something like Rome. Rome   
   came to them, other Empires came to them. They did not march on what is   
   now Teheran, did not try to conquer Greece or France. So how is this a   
   blueprint ? If they used the Torah as a blueprint, then why did they not   
   distribute the land to all ? Why do these western people care almost   
   nothing about the laws in the Torah, except a little for show maybe ?   
      
   There have been tribes and nations who thought they where best, and who   
   tried to conquer others, since a long time ago. These people didn't need   
   any help from the Torah. If they had followed the Torah blueprint, they   
   would also have gone on to record their bad behavior, which is all   
   recorded in the prophets of Israel about themselves. This shows that   
   they know and admit what is wrong with them, unlike you get with most   
   any other Nation who would never do that. Israel did it at the height of   
   its cultural expression.   
      
   You can see that alltogether, the Jewish people really are the chosen   
   people, and you will just have to suck it up and try to be better, just   
   like they should. That doesn't mean every supposed Jew is better than   
   other people of course, it depends on their record of deeds, obviously.   
   Being chosen in this case means, to give the right example, to live laws   
   that work. We could start distributing the land right now, and therefore   
   make sure unemployement drops dramatically, people become human again,   
   have some challenge and creativity in life, especially the unemployed   
   need land, etc. That is merely one aspect of it.   
      
   I guess that is another issue that feeds in it: this is about practical   
   things (IMHO), while 'the Nations' are so debased that they can only   
   think in 'identity politics.'  If those black and phoney "Israelites"   
   (heh) where to take some land and distributed it, then lived righteously   
   on it, for all I care they would be the chosen people from then on. Who   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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