From: Josjoha@market.socialism.nl
On 2025-01-25, Ördög wrote:
> Santiago Rojas wrote:
>
>> Hey there! I'm new to Usenet and I'm a socialist. Any thoughts on Titoist
>> self-management?
[...]
> I think tackling democracy at the workplace must be a priority for both
> socialists and communists. The role of the state should never be take
> over the role of some sort of capitalist corporate leadership, instead
> it should only coordinate/facilitate/guide the interactions amongst the
> different production and service sector branches of the economy.
>
> I recommend that you Google "Democracy at the Workplace" and the work of
> Professor Richard Wolff as you will get a lot better explanation from
> him than from me.
>
> BTW I am a communist with a very open mind.
[...]
Hello. The sad reality seems to be how humanity in general, but
excluding sectors of academia, does not want to comprehend how an
economy works. There is nothing wrong with a trade economy, so long as
the power is as spread out as it used to be in the Stone age, which was
a time when *land* was not under the control of individuals. Evidence
seems to suggest how trade was already established in the Stone Age
(before farming and fixed land use), which explains why humanity is
still unable to make sense out of the new economy, which is one
including the fixed use of land (farming, but also other fixed uses,
especially escalating in modern times).
The critical factor in price is the effort put in. The work being put
in, is what defines the price, or should. When this is the case, the
economy should work. Now that fixed land use became the norm, land
started to be traded as if it was a commodity, as if it was made by
someone who could charge a price for it. This is incorrect. Land and
ultimately the planet is not a product rolling out of a factory,
according to the demand for it.
Land is everything. Everything comes from land, moves on land, and
returns to land. There is fundamentally nothing wrong with someone doing
some work or making something on and with their land, and then selling
this good for a price he decides to a costumer willing to pay that
price. These people are free (not under a dictator or other parasite),
they distribute goods and work themselves according to their needs.
The key factor to achieve this, is to make certain everyone has their
equal value right in land honored, which is an inalienable right. Land
may not be traded. If land is traded, it ends up in the hands of the
few, and then you end up in some sort of Feudalism or Capitalism, where
people become slaves to the owners. Land is everything. The land owner
therefore owns everything. The others end up being roaming slaves
looking for a master. Cruel or not, they have no options, because
"everything" has been taken away from them, and their lives and
happiness is next. They are slaves, and this is the state of humans,
even under supposed Communism (Stalinism, command economy).
What do you think of this. I can go on and on about it with near
endless more arguments. It is critical and essential for humanity to
finally stop acting bizarre and deal with reality: we are farmers, we
have fixed land use, and we have to take care of that correctly. The old
Stone Age economy (of take what you can get) does not work with this
kind of technology anymore.
I propose the key element of our philosophy to be: distribution of
power. However, absolutely not in an anarchist kind of way (which is
youthful chaos and madness), but rather strictly ordered and well
organized. 4 elemens of power may be good to focus on:
1. The State (as much democracy as the people can handle), 2. The
companies, to be democracized mostly in some way as you also promote (I
think startups and small business should be left out of the democratization
rule), 3. The investment sector needs to be dealt with to neutralize
them financing business dictatorships and exploitation of people, and 4.
the distribution of the land as a right.
If you think (like most people seem to assume) this describes a primitive
agricultural society where people generally work on their own land,
then you have not comprehended this model whatsoever. It is rather the
highly developed technology and specialization of today, which demands
land to be distributed to all like never before. Otherwise, people will
end up being cut out of the economy entirely because they have no more
function for the owners, and with nothing to replace the *everything* they
lost, their final destination is another war of mutual annihilation.
The land should be distributed, but it should also be rented to each
other, and it can be swap traded. There need to be a buffer of for
example 10% excess plots, to facilitate people moving. Plots need to
include farm land, but also all other land uses, including establishment
of businesses requiring buildings. Land needs to be zoned for the
various uses.
It is unfortunate how humanity has chosen to become evil with all its
wars and absurd levels of greed, because this has meant we have not
learned slowly and carefully in simpler times how to deal with these
issues as they came up. Humanity has become a grotesque monster of
sorts, which due to its long standing misgrowth and maldevelopment not
only economic but also moral now faces a difficult adjustment proces
back to reality and broad survival under these new circumstances.
If humanity decides to continue on the path of evil, it will likely lead
to worsening catastrophes, including the abuse of nature, Tyranny and
war. Eventually humanity might even end up back in the Stone Age, which
their minds thusfar have been unable to leave behind.
Everything i am describing I have already detailed on website (all
free), see signature, including the implementation methods which I think
are good to use. This is not a simple project. This is much more
detailed and serious than this book written by Karl Marx, from which you
end up nothing the wiser after reading (in my opinion). It has no
practicality. Lenin's work center around centralization it seems, he
wanted to centralize control all the time, even though he may not have
meant it badly (my impression). Stalin was the result of all this
centralization. I assume he knew quite well that he was a criminal.
The work by Professor Richard Wolff seems to be much more useful and
good then all of those Communists put together (I'm an ex member of the
NCPN, by the way, Dutch communist party, I absolutely am not inherently
anti-Communist, but just disappointed by it all).
I'm sorry I propably wasted your and my time, since nothing ever seems
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