From: santyrojasprieto9@gmail.com   
      
   You're right in many ways! Land is the base of the economy -- keeping your   
   house after retirement is fine, but owning acres and acres of land is NOT.   
   How should we awaken class consciousness on the proletariat?   
      
   "Jos Boersema"  escribió en el mensaje   
   news:10ffeqm$ucmf$1@dont-email.me...   
   > On 2025-01-25, Ördög  wrote:   
   >> Santiago Rojas wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> Hey there! I'm new to Usenet and I'm a socialist. Any thoughts on   
   >>> Titoist   
   >>> self-management?   
   >   
   > [...]   
   >   
   >> I think tackling democracy at the workplace must be a priority for both   
   >> socialists and communists. The role of the state should never be take   
   >> over the role of some sort of capitalist corporate leadership, instead   
   >> it should only coordinate/facilitate/guide the interactions amongst the   
   >> different production and service sector branches of the economy.   
   >>   
   >> I recommend that you Google "Democracy at the Workplace" and the work of   
   >> Professor Richard Wolff as you will get a lot better explanation from   
   >> him than from me.   
   >>   
   >> BTW I am a communist with a very open mind.   
   >   
   > [...]   
   >   
   > Hello. The sad reality seems to be how humanity in general, but   
   > excluding sectors of academia, does not want to comprehend how an   
   > economy works. There is nothing wrong with a trade economy, so long as   
   > the power is as spread out as it used to be in the Stone age, which was   
   > a time when *land* was not under the control of individuals. Evidence   
   > seems to suggest how trade was already established in the Stone Age   
   > (before farming and fixed land use), which explains why humanity is   
   > still unable to make sense out of the new economy, which is one   
   > including the fixed use of land (farming, but also other fixed uses,   
   > especially escalating in modern times).   
   >   
   > The critical factor in price is the effort put in. The work being put   
   > in, is what defines the price, or should. When this is the case, the   
   > economy should work. Now that fixed land use became the norm, land   
   > started to be traded as if it was a commodity, as if it was made by   
   > someone who could charge a price for it. This is incorrect. Land and   
   > ultimately the planet is not a product rolling out of a factory,   
   > according to the demand for it.   
   >   
   > Land is everything. Everything comes from land, moves on land, and   
   > returns to land. There is fundamentally nothing wrong with someone doing   
   > some work or making something on and with their land, and then selling   
   > this good for a price he decides to a costumer willing to pay that   
   > price. These people are free (not under a dictator or other parasite),   
   > they distribute goods and work themselves according to their needs.   
   >   
   > The key factor to achieve this, is to make certain everyone has their   
   > equal value right in land honored, which is an inalienable right. Land   
   > may not be traded. If land is traded, it ends up in the hands of the   
   > few, and then you end up in some sort of Feudalism or Capitalism, where   
   > people become slaves to the owners. Land is everything. The land owner   
   > therefore owns everything. The others end up being roaming slaves   
   > looking for a master. Cruel or not, they have no options, because   
   > "everything" has been taken away from them, and their lives and   
   > happiness is next. They are slaves, and this is the state of humans,   
   > even under supposed Communism (Stalinism, command economy).   
   >   
   > What do you think of this. I can go on and on about it with near   
   > endless more arguments. It is critical and essential for humanity to   
   > finally stop acting bizarre and deal with reality: we are farmers, we   
   > have fixed land use, and we have to take care of that correctly. The old   
   > Stone Age economy (of take what you can get) does not work with this   
   > kind of technology anymore.   
   >   
   > I propose the key element of our philosophy to be: distribution of   
   > power. However, absolutely not in an anarchist kind of way (which is   
   > youthful chaos and madness), but rather strictly ordered and well   
   > organized. 4 elemens of power may be good to focus on:   
   >   
   > 1. The State (as much democracy as the people can handle), 2. The   
   > companies, to be democracized mostly in some way as you also promote (I   
   > think startups and small business should be left out of the   
   > democratization   
   > rule), 3. The investment sector needs to be dealt with to neutralize   
   > them financing business dictatorships and exploitation of people, and 4.   
   > the distribution of the land as a right.   
   >   
   > If you think (like most people seem to assume) this describes a primitive   
   > agricultural society where people generally work on their own land,   
   > then you have not comprehended this model whatsoever. It is rather the   
   > highly developed technology and specialization of today, which demands   
   > land to be distributed to all like never before. Otherwise, people will   
   > end up being cut out of the economy entirely because they have no more   
   > function for the owners, and with nothing to replace the *everything* they   
   > lost, their final destination is another war of mutual annihilation.   
   >   
   > The land should be distributed, but it should also be rented to each   
   > other, and it can be swap traded. There need to be a buffer of for   
   > example 10% excess plots, to facilitate people moving. Plots need to   
   > include farm land, but also all other land uses, including establishment   
   > of businesses requiring buildings. Land needs to be zoned for the   
   > various uses.   
   >   
   > It is unfortunate how humanity has chosen to become evil with all its   
   > wars and absurd levels of greed, because this has meant we have not   
   > learned slowly and carefully in simpler times how to deal with these   
   > issues as they came up. Humanity has become a grotesque monster of   
   > sorts, which due to its long standing misgrowth and maldevelopment not   
   > only economic but also moral now faces a difficult adjustment proces   
   > back to reality and broad survival under these new circumstances.   
   >   
   > If humanity decides to continue on the path of evil, it will likely lead   
   > to worsening catastrophes, including the abuse of nature, Tyranny and   
   > war. Eventually humanity might even end up back in the Stone Age, which   
   > their minds thusfar have been unable to leave behind.   
   >   
   > Everything i am describing I have already detailed on website (all   
   > free), see signature, including the implementation methods which I think   
   > are good to use. This is not a simple project. This is much more   
   > detailed and serious than this book written by Karl Marx, from which you   
   > end up nothing the wiser after reading (in my opinion). It has no   
   > practicality. Lenin's work center around centralization it seems, he   
      
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