XPost: soc.culture.jewish   
   From: Josjoha@market.socialism.nl   
      
   On 2026-01-18, Santiago Rojas  wrote:   
   > "Jos Boersema"  escribió en el mensaje   
   > news:10ffeqm$ucmf$1@dont-email.me...   
   >> On 2025-01-25, Ördög  wrote:   
   >>> Santiago Rojas wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> Hey there! I'm new to Usenet and I'm a socialist. Any thoughts on   
   >>>> Titoist   
   >>>> self-management?   
   >>   
   >> [...]   
   >>   
   >>> I think tackling democracy at the workplace must be a priority for both   
   >>> socialists and communists. The role of the state should never be take   
   >>> over the role of some sort of capitalist corporate leadership, instead   
   >>> it should only coordinate/facilitate/guide the interactions amongst the   
   >>> different production and service sector branches of the economy.   
   >>>   
   >>> I recommend that you Google "Democracy at the Workplace" and the work of   
   >>> Professor Richard Wolff as you will get a lot better explanation from   
   >>> him than from me.   
   >>>   
   >>> BTW I am a communist with a very open mind.   
   >>   
   >> [...]   
   >>   
   >> Hello. The sad reality seems to be how humanity in general, but   
   >> excluding sectors of academia, does not want to comprehend how an   
   >> economy works. There is nothing wrong with a trade economy, so long as   
   >> the power is as spread out as it used to be in the Stone age, which was   
   >> a time when *land* was not under the control of individuals. Evidence   
   >> seems to suggest how trade was already established in the Stone Age   
   >> (before farming and fixed land use), which explains why humanity is   
   >> still unable to make sense out of the new economy, which is one   
   >> including the fixed use of land (farming, but also other fixed uses,   
   >> especially escalating in modern times).   
   >>   
   >> The critical factor in price is the effort put in. The work being put   
   >> in, is what defines the price, or should. When this is the case, the   
   >> economy should work. Now that fixed land use became the norm, land   
   >> started to be traded as if it was a commodity, as if it was made by   
   >> someone who could charge a price for it. This is incorrect. Land and   
   >> ultimately the planet is not a product rolling out of a factory,   
   >> according to the demand for it.   
   >>   
   >> Land is everything. Everything comes from land, moves on land, and   
   >> returns to land. There is fundamentally nothing wrong with someone doing   
   >> some work or making something on and with their land, and then selling   
   >> this good for a price he decides to a costumer willing to pay that   
   >> price. These people are free (not under a dictator or other parasite),   
   >> they distribute goods and work themselves according to their needs.   
   >>   
   >> The key factor to achieve this, is to make certain everyone has their   
   >> equal value right in land honored, which is an inalienable right. Land   
   >> may not be traded. If land is traded, it ends up in the hands of the   
   >> few, and then you end up in some sort of Feudalism or Capitalism, where   
   >> people become slaves to the owners. Land is everything. The land owner   
   >> therefore owns everything. The others end up being roaming slaves   
   >> looking for a master. Cruel or not, they have no options, because   
   >> "everything" has been taken away from them, and their lives and   
   >> happiness is next. They are slaves, and this is the state of humans,   
   >> even under supposed Communism (Stalinism, command economy).   
   [...]   
   >> If you think (like most people seem to assume) this describes a primitive   
   >> agricultural society where people generally work on their own land,   
   >> then you have not comprehended this model whatsoever. It is rather the   
   >> highly developed technology and specialization of today, which demands   
   >> land to be distributed to all like never before. Otherwise, people will   
   >> end up being cut out of the economy entirely because they have no more   
   >> function for the owners, and with nothing to replace the *everything* they   
   >> lost, their final destination is another war of mutual annihilation.   
   >>   
   >> The land should be distributed, but it should also be rented to each   
   >> other, and it can be swap traded. There need to be a buffer of for   
   >> example 10% excess plots, to facilitate people moving. Plots need to   
   >> include farm land, but also all other land uses, including establishment   
   >> of businesses requiring buildings. Land needs to be zoned for the   
   >> various uses.   
   [...]   
   > You're right in many ways! Land is the base of the economy -- keeping your   
   > house after retirement is fine, but owning acres and acres of land is NOT.   
   > How should we awaken class consciousness on the proletariat?   
      
   Any way we can possibly think off ? We have to just keep trying, more   
   because it is the right thing to do than that we expect any results,   
   because humanity as it is (and has been?) is so ignorant and so   
   willfully ignorant, that there is no saying anyone can get trhough to   
   these people with whatever they have at their disposal.   
      
   I should still make videos on the various topics, because I made videos   
   which did not receive any views (they where apparently too boring I   
   guess). It may be more useful to find like minded people and try to see   
   how far we can get for ourselves, than to convince people who have given   
   up morally and intellectually, or who are actively against freedom and   
   equality because they want to become the evil bosses themselves. A large   
   amount of supposedly common people in the 'proletariat' probably fall in   
   this category. This category will likely never support the truth, always   
   hoping to become a rich abuser themselves one day. It may therefore be   
   basically impossible to reach everyone and convince everyone.   
      
   Personally I had hoped to reach at least the smarter people, such as in   
   academia, but it seems to not be possible. They don't care either. It   
   looks more & more like academia is little more than a money making job   
   for most of them at this point.   
      
   Look here, a complete Nation (of sorts, sub-Nation if you want), who   
   knows that the land cannot be traded, and is practicing it. Despite   
   masses of people seeing this video, they simply do not get the clue.   
   There is nothing between their ears, absolutely hollowed out souls   
   without direction or intelligence of any kind. What do you do with   
   that, I don't know. Most/many of them might die in World War 3, and then   
   after this chaos it may be time for people with half a brain at least to   
   do something positive.   
      
   Notice also that the most famous book in the world (I guess), which is   
   the Torah (law of Mozes) is completely clear that everyone must have the   
   right to land, and that trade in land is forbidden. For thousands of   
   years this was known. Did people care ? No. This is what we are dealing   
   with. An absolute zero when it comes to intelligence & caring.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)