XPost: alt.talk.royalty, soc.culture.british, alt.society.monarchy
From: le@top.put.com
In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein wrote:
>
> The reference date has now moved back before Bishop (future Archbishop)
> Temple was nominated to the vacant see of London.
>
> I've lately read that the Prince of Wales declined to take part in a
> documentary on the 40th anniversary of his investiture as Prince of
> Wales in 1969 (which I dimly recall seeing on television),suggesting
> that the 50th anniversary would be a more appropriate occasion.
>
> And here we are in the year of that 50th anniversary and he is still
> Prince of Wales.Odds would have been against it then but he was right.
There has just been a palace reception marking that anniversary (a bit
early since the investiture took place on July 1st).
I note that the birth of the current Duke of York and marriage of the
Duke of Cambridge are separated by more time than the deaths of Queen
Victoria and King George VI (another perspective on the "lived in the
reigns of six sovereigns" random distinction that can cover far less
time than one reign).
The younger sons of the Queen were not at the reception and press
speculated it was because they did not attend the 1969 ceremony;
but in the case of some terror attack striking an event where the
Queen,the Prince of Wales,and his sons were all present having the
next adult in line elsewhere would be prudent...
Herewith the latest iteration of the reference file...the reference
date is getting close to Attlee's second birthday and moving back
before 1885.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on January 14th 1885.
Queen Victoria,over 4 months from 66,was on the throne;
her Golden Jubilee would be in the second year following,her
Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under
3 months past 43 (the current Prince of Wales is over 3 months past 70),
the future George V was over 4 months from 20(the Duke of Cambridge is
under 4 months from 37--George V was Prince of Wales at his age),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother yet the Duke of Clarence.
The future Archbishops of Canterbury who would crown these Kings were
Bishop of Exeter and Dean of Windsor respectively.The oldest
British royal was George III's daughter-in-law the Duchess of Cambridge
(Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797.
The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,
Guildford,Portsmouth,St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark
did not yet exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield (now
abolished).That of Southwell was over 3 weeks short of a year old.
Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill was ten,
Attlee was two,and no later Prime Minister had yet been born
(nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.
William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had passed the Representation of the People Act 1884(which would for the
first time enable most men to vote) and was pursuing passage of the
Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which established the norm of
single-member constituencies) but these had yet to actually come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-three years.
Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.
(Charles Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).
Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) was Master of the Rolls.
Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.
Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete years before World War I
had yet to be laid down,nor had HMS Victoria,which would sink in an
1893 collision with the ironclad HMS Camperdown(at this point not yet
launched).Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions,
and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.
The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of
Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) and Sir Patrick Grant(born 1804)
were Field Marshals,while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799) and the 3rd
Earl of Lucan(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,had yet to receive promotion to that rank.
The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810,
great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,second cousin of the
great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke),and the 4th
(and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 4th Marquess of Donegall (born 1799) was alive and had succeeded
his elder brother less than a year and a half before(the present
peer is the great-great-great-grandson of his first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great-
great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor) and
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the septuagenarian present peer and of his predecessor) were among
the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) was still alive,a Lord-Lieutenant
since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806)
had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,and had been an MP
[continued in next message]
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