XPost: alt.talk.royalty, soc.culture.british, alt.society.monarchy   
   From: le@top.put.com   
      
   A revision for the 99th birthday of the Duke of Edinburgh...   
   matching this age would take the Prince of Wales to 2047,   
   the Duke of Cambridge to 2081,   
   and Prince George to 2112.   
      
   Princess Charlotte now overtakes George VI as the oldest-ever   
   second-oldest child of a son of a Prince of Wales.(She's already   
   the oldest-ever daughter of a son of a Prince of Wales,but still   
   only the third-oldest granddaughter of a Prince of Wales).   
      
   The reference file below has now moved back before the final   
   occasion on which someone born in the 1700s succeeded to a   
   peerage.   
      
   				-=-=-=-=-=-=-   
   Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire   
   as they were on October 8th 1883.   
      
   Queen Victoria,under 5 months past 64,was on the throne;   
   her Golden Jubilee would be in the fourth year following,her   
   Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over   
   a month from 42 (the current Prince of Wales is over 6 months past 71),   
   the future George V was under 5 months past 18(the Duke of Cambridge is   
   only 2 weeks from 38--George V was Prince of Wales at his age),not yet   
   Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder   
   brother (who had over eight years to live) yet 20.   
   The future Archbishops of Canterbury who would crown these Kings were   
   Bishop of Exeter and Dean of Windsor respectively.The oldest   
   British royal was George III's daughter-in-law the Duchess of Cambridge   
   (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797.   
      
   The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,   
   Guildford,Portsmouth,St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark   
   did not yet exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,   
   or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of   
   Newcastle was less than a year and a half old.   
      
   Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill was eight   
   years old,Attlee was under 10 months old,and no later Prime Minister   
   had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).   
   Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish   
   Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour   
   Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.   
      
   William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been   
   Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government   
   would soon seek passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884   
   (which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would   
   be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish   
   the norm of single-member constituencies) but these would only come into   
   effect with the following election.   
   Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-five years.   
   Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,   
   had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles   
   James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).   
   Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been   
   the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished   
   by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,   
   sources disagree,and not yet a peer) was Master of the Rolls.   
      
   Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a   
   decade from adding the New Territories.   
      
   Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete years before World War I   
   had yet to be laid down,nor had HMS Victoria,which would sink in an   
   1893 collision with the ironclad HMS Camperdown(at this point not yet   
   launched).Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,   
   some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions,   
   and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone   
   for the final time.   
      
   The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born   
   1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and   
   Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);   
   Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805   
   nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to   
   "The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of   
   Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,   
   and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had   
   taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS   
   Chesapeake in 1813.   
   The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) and Sir Patrick Grant(born 1804)   
   were Field Marshals,while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799) and the 3rd   
   Earl of Lucan(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the   
   Charge of the Light Brigade,had yet to receive promotion to that rank.   
      
   The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810,   
   great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)   
   the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the   
   present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and   
   a peer in 1834),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,second cousin of the   
   great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke),and the 4th   
   (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).   
   The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the   
   Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.   
   The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be   
   succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the   
   great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).   
   The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great-   
   great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor) and   
   3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the   
   great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his   
   predecessor)   
   were among the Knights of the Garter.   
   The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over 9 years to live,and   
   had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.   
   The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806)   
   had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,and had been an MP   
   from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.   
   Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),   
   and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.   
   The eldest of Earls were the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,   
   born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,   
   commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,   
   who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.   
   The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the   
   current peer is the 17th.   
   The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was   
   alive,the present peer is the 10th.   
   The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794   
   and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.   
   The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,   
   who had inherited his title in 1822.   
   Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)