XPost: alt.talk.royalty, soc.culture.british, alt.society.monarchy   
   From: le@top.put.com   
      
   An ahead-of-norm update because I found I had failed to make   
   some appropriate updates...the reference date had at last post   
   actually passed within three months of Edward VII's birthday   
   (born November 9th 1841) and was no longer more than nine   
   months past the establishment of the Diocese of Newcastle   
   (late May 1882).   
      
   The Queen's great-grandchildren now outnumber her grandchildren,   
   a milestone Queen Victoria (who had far more of each) did not   
   live to see and which depends on families' childbearing choices   
   (the current LDS Church President is under a year and a half   
   older than the Queen,but has 57 grandchildren and 140 great-   
   grandchildren and his first great-great-grandchild (Queen Victoria   
   would not have had to reach 86 to see hers,while the current Queen's   
   eldest great-grandchild is not far past her 10th birthday so a   
   future generation would likely need Her Majesty to live past 105)).   
      
   Only two of Queen Victoria's great-grandchildren had been born   
   as of the current reference date and as many of Victoria's   
   grandchildren as the current Queen has (8) had not been born   
   yet,such as Princess Alice,Countess of Athlone (February   
   25th 1883-January 3rd 1981).   
   				-=-=-=-=-=-=-   
      
   Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire   
   as they were on February 2nd 1883.   
      
   Queen Victoria,over 3 months from 64,was on the throne;   
   her Golden Jubilee would be in the fourth year following,her   
   Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under   
   3 months past 41 (the current Prince of Wales is over 2 months past 72),   
   the future George V was over 4 months from 18(the Duke of Cambridge is   
   under 5 months from 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when   
   all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet   
   Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder   
   brother (who had over eight and a half years to live) yet 20.   
   The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was   
   Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law   
   the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with   
   over six years to live.   
      
   The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol,   
   Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Portsmouth,   
   St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet   
   exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,   
   or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of   
   Newcastle was under nine months old.   
      
   Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill was eight   
   years old,Attlee was under a month old,and no later Prime Minister   
   had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).   
   Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish   
   Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour   
   Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.   
      
   William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been   
   Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government   
   had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884   
   (which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would   
   be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish   
   the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into   
   effect with the following election.   
   Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-five years.   
   Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,   
   had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles   
   James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).   
   Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been   
   the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished   
   by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,   
   sources disagree,and not yet a peer) was Master of the Rolls.   
      
   Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a   
   decade from adding the New Territories.   
      
   Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete years before World War I   
   had yet to be laid down,nor had HMS Victoria,which would sink in an   
   1893 collision with the ironclad HMS Camperdown(at this point not yet   
   launched).Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,   
   some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions,   
   and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone   
   for the final time.   
      
   The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born   
   1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and   
   Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);   
   Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805   
   nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to   
   "The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of   
   Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,   
   and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had   
   taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS   
   Chesapeake in 1813.   
   The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,   
   while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan   
   (born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the   
   Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804   
   had yet to receive promotion to that rank.   
      
   The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810,   
   great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)   
   the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather   
   of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),   
   the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the   
   present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and   
   a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,   
   succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great-   
   grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,   
   second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke),   
   and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).   
   The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the   
   Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.   
   The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be   
   succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the   
   great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).   
   The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great-   
   great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor) and   
   3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the   
   great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his   
   predecessor)   
   were among the Knights of the Garter.   
   The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)