XPost: talk.religion.christian.jehovah-witness, free.christians, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh   
   From: HeatWave@mailinator.com   
      
   Gregory A Greenman wrote:   
   > In article , HeatWave   
   >  declared...   
   >> Gregory A Greenman wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>> They say that scientific investigation of the world   
   >>>> around us has proved that life came into existence not by intelligent   
   >>>> creation but by blind chance and the haphazard process of evolution.   
   >>>   
   >>> This is just a straw man. No one actually says this. When you lie   
   >>> to people about their beliefs, do you honestly think you're   
   >>> likely to persuade them that they're wrong?   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >> If there was no Creator, then life must have started spontaneously by   
   >> chance.  Do you deny this?   
   >   
   >   
   > Yes I deny that. It's possible that life has always existed   
   > (although I don't believe that to be the case).   
      
   Interesting, Life has always been.   
      
      
   > And chance isn't   
   > the right word for it.   
   >   
   > BTW, if there is a creator, did the creator come into existence   
   > by chance?   
   >   
   >   
      
   Not if you believe Life has always been.   
      
   >   
   >   
   >> or is it another straw man.   
   >   
   >   
   > Do you know what a straw man is? Apparently not. It's a position   
   > you incorrectly attribute to others that you then criticize.   
   >   
   >   
      
   a strawman is an object, document, person, or argument that temporarily   
   stands in for and is intended to be "knocked down" by something more   
   substantial.  Has nothing to do with wrong attributions, or criticism.   
      
   >   
   >   
   >> For life to have   
   >> come about, somehow the right chemicals would have had to come together   
   >> in the right quantities, under the right temperature and pressure and   
   >> other controlling factors, and all would have had to be maintained for   
   >> the correct length of time.   
   >   
   >   
   > Yep. Just like for rain to occur, "somehow the right chemicals   
   > would have had to come together in the right quantities, under   
   > the right temperature and pressure and other controlling factors,   
   > and all would have had to be maintained for  the correct length   
   > of time". Note that rain occurs all the time. (Well, except here   
   > in Texas. If anyone has any to spare, please send it here.)   
   >   
   >   
      
   But abiogenesis doesn't.. you were saying about the strawman fallacy?   
      
      
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >> Furthermore, for life to have begun and been   
   >> sustained on earth, these chance events would have had to be repeated   
   >> thousands of times. But how likely is it for even one such event to take   
   >> place?   
   >   
   >   
   > Pretty darn close to a certainty. You've got vast amounts of   
   > spaces on earth where abiogenesis could have occurred and you   
   > have vast amounts of time over which it could have occurred.   
      
   And yet it can't even be duplicated. Urey-Miller showed that much.   
      
   > Also, it's probable that there are millions of earth like planets   
   > in the Universe on which it could have occurred.   
      
   It is also probable that, there is only one earth as well.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)