XPost: talk.religion.christian.jehovah-witness, free.christians, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh   
   From: see@sig.below   
      
   In article , HeatWave   
    declared...   
   > Gregory A Greenman wrote:   
   >   
   > >   
   > >> They say that scientific investigation of the world   
   > >> around us has proved that life came into existence not by intelligent   
   > >> creation but by blind chance and the haphazard process of evolution.   
   > >   
   > >   
   > > This is just a straw man. No one actually says this. When you lie   
   > > to people about their beliefs, do you honestly think you're   
   > > likely to persuade them that they're wrong?   
   > >   
   > >   
   > If there was no Creator, then life must have started spontaneously by   
   > chance.  Do you deny this?   
      
      
   Yes I deny that. It's possible that life has always existed   
   (although I don't believe that to be the case). And chance isn't   
   the right word for it.   
      
   BTW, if there is a creator, did the creator come into existence   
   by chance?   
      
      
      
      
   > or is it another straw man.   
      
      
   Do you know what a straw man is? Apparently not. It's a position   
   you incorrectly attribute to others that you then criticize.   
      
      
      
      
   > For life to have   
   > come about, somehow the right chemicals would have had to come together   
   > in the right quantities, under the right temperature and pressure and   
   > other controlling factors, and all would have had to be maintained for   
   > the correct length of time.   
      
      
   Yep. Just like for rain to occur, "somehow the right chemicals   
   would have had to come together in the right quantities, under   
   the right temperature and pressure and other controlling factors,   
   and all would have had to be maintained for  the correct length   
   of time". Note that rain occurs all the time. (Well, except here   
   in Texas. If anyone has any to spare, please send it here.)   
      
      
      
      
      
   > Furthermore, for life to have begun and been   
   > sustained on earth, these chance events would have had to be repeated   
   > thousands of times. But how likely is it for even one such event to take   
   > place?   
      
      
   Pretty darn close to a certainty. You've got vast amounts of   
   spaces on earth where abiogenesis could have occurred and you   
   have vast amounts of time over which it could have occurred.   
   Also, it's probable that there are millions of earth like planets   
   in the Universe on which it could have occurred. Consequently, if   
   abiogenesis hadn't happened, I'd be surprised. Well, actually I   
   wouldn't - but only because I wouldn't exist.   
      
      
      
      
   > >> They argue, therefore, that there was no Creator and that it follows   
   > >> that the question of God is superfluous.   
   > >   
   > >   
   > > Another straw man.   
   > >   
   > >   
   > >   
   > >   
   > > The facts show that the christian god does not exist.   
   > >   
   > >   
   >   
   > But Allah does?   
      
      
   Huh? No, I don't believe that allah exists either. Further, I   
   have no idea why you would suggest that it does.   
      
      
      
   > I guess 911 proves them right.   
      
      
   Again, huh? I don't see how this follows.   
      
      
      
      
   --   
   Greg   
   ----   
   http://www.spencerbooksellers.com   
   greg00 -at- spencersoft -dot- com   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)