XPost: talk.religion.christian.jehovah-witness, free.christians, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh   
   From: gmail@com.mkbilbo   
      
   On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:45:17 +0000, HeatWave wrote:   
      
   > Gregory A Greenman wrote:   
   >> In article , HeatWave   
   >>  declared...   
   >>> Gregory A Greenman wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>> They say that scientific investigation of the world around us has   
   >>>>> proved that life came into existence not by intelligent creation but   
   >>>>> by blind chance and the haphazard process of evolution.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> This is just a straw man. No one actually says this. When you lie to   
   >>>> people about their beliefs, do you honestly think you're likely to   
   >>>> persuade them that they're wrong?   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>> If there was no Creator, then life must have started spontaneously by   
   >>> chance.  Do you deny this?   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Yes I deny that. It's possible that life has always existed (although I   
   >> don't believe that to be the case).   
   >   
   > Interesting, Life has always been.   
   >   
   >   
   >> And chance isn't   
   >> the right word for it.   
   >>   
   >> BTW, if there is a creator, did the creator come into existence by   
   >> chance?   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   > Not if you believe Life has always been.   
      
   He doesn't. Having trouble with that "reading comprehension" thing?   
      
      
   >>   
   >>> or is it another straw man.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Do you know what a straw man is? Apparently not. It's a position you   
   >> incorrectly attribute to others that you then criticize.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   > a strawman is an object, document, person, or argument that temporarily   
   > stands in for and is intended to be "knocked down" by something more   
   > substantial.  Has nothing to do with wrong attributions, or criticism.   
      
   Okay, we now know you can cut-n-paste. But do you *understand?   
      
   >>> For life to have   
   >>> come about, somehow the right chemicals would have had to come   
   >>> together in the right quantities, under the right temperature and   
   >>> pressure and other controlling factors, and all would have had to be   
   >>> maintained for the correct length of time.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Yep. Just like for rain to occur, "somehow the right chemicals would   
   >> have had to come together in the right quantities, under the right   
   >> temperature and pressure and other controlling factors, and all would   
   >> have had to be maintained for  the correct length of time". Note that   
   >> rain occurs all the time. (Well, except here in Texas. If anyone has   
   >> any to spare, please send it here.)   
   >>   
   >>   
   > But abiogenesis doesn't.. you were saying about the strawman fallacy?   
      
   Doesn't what? And, no, that's not a strawman. Now we know you didn't   
   understand what you cut-n-pasted.   
      
      
   >>   
   >>> Furthermore, for life to have begun and been sustained on earth, these   
   >>> chance events would have had to be repeated thousands of times. But   
   >>> how likely is it for even one such event to take place?   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Pretty darn close to a certainty. You've got vast amounts of spaces on   
   >> earth where abiogenesis could have occurred and you have vast amounts   
   >> of time over which it could have occurred.   
   >   
   > And yet it can't even be duplicated. Urey-Miller showed that much.   
      
   Damn, you're nearly half a century out of date.   
      
   >> Also, it's probable that there are millions of earth like planets in   
   >> the Universe on which it could have occurred.   
   >   
   > It is also probable that, there is only one earth as well.   
      
   It's neither "probable" nor "improbable." It's "unknown." We flat do not   
   know how common earth like planets are. Talk about "probabilities" at this   
   point is stupid.   
      
   Get back to us after you've done an extensive survey of extrasolar   
   planets. Let's say at least to a radius of 60ly (wonder if you can figure   
   out why I picked that number).   
      
   --   
   Mark K. Bilbo   
   --------------------------------------------------   
   "As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans   
   for everything bad that happened during and after   
   Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people   
   who lived here were much more prepared for a big   
   storm than the federal government that promised   
   us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]   
      
   http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC   
      
   "Everything New Orleans"   
   http://www.nola.com   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)