XPost: alt.anarchism, soc.culture.palestine, soc.culture.israel   
   XPost: alt.religion.unification   
   From: nowhere@none   
      
   Beautifully put,congrats!   
      
   "James A. Donald"  wrote in message   
   news:k4drk2t1979pt025beqsi999nlej22p87m@4ax.com...   
   > "The Messiah. Judge of Judgement Day: Lucifer Morning   
   > Star."  wrote:   
   >> You have a tiny population of about 5 million people   
   >> and about 3 million so called Jews, a minority of whom   
   >> who are feeding the European supermarkets (pop. 300   
   >> million) with their agriculture from collectives   
   >> founded by anti-Stalinist Communists, many of whom   
   >> fled State Capitalist Communism.   
   >   
   > If the kibbutz represents what you guys intend, nothing   
   > is stopping you from starting a kibbutz in Vermont right   
   > now.   
   >   
   > In reality, if you lot were in charge, the kibbutzniks   
   > would be the first to be lined up against the wall and   
   > shot.   
   >   
   > The kibbutz movement was a major force in the founding   
   > of Israel because a kibbutz is better able to defend   
   > property against large organized threats than an   
   > individual private pioneer - an activity you lot   
   > perceived as racism, imperialism, etcetera.   
   >   
   >> What is stopping this revolution is the political will   
   >> of the Capitalists and Statists (who want   
   >> depopulation) and of course 'private property;' you   
   >> cannot just set up a polyhouse anywhere in Capitalism,   
   >> and if you could the supermarkets would go out of   
   >> business due to the free abundance of food.   
   >   
   > Sure you can:  If you are American, Land in vermont far   
   > away from the cities is cheap, nearly free and if you   
   > are Jewish there is plenty of "unowned" or state owned   
   > land in Palestine - land that was originally claimed to   
   > be the property of the sultan or of some high official   
   > in his court.  A theory that deprecates private property   
   > rights as the mere will of the state leads to the   
   > conclusion that that land is still unowned or state   
   > owned, hence the popularity of such theories among   
   > Jewish landowners in Israel.  The sultan took   
   > everything, therefore the Jews can take everything.   
   >   
   >   
   >> Central Planning and syndicalism.   
   >>   
   >> Collectivist Primitivism is a great idea in the early   
   >> stages of a revolution in the Third World for example;   
   >> at least everyone could have food and shelter with   
   >> very little effort, but gone would be mass access to   
   >> the great.   
   >   
   > We tried primitivist collectivism in the sixties.  We   
   > discovered that producing food with primitive technology   
   > is a great deal of work, and produces very little food.   
   > Factory farming is the way to go if you are none too   
   > keen on shoveling all day.  With factory farms, 1% of   
   > the population can feed 100% of the population.  With   
   > primitivism, it takes a lot of work to feed yourself.   
   >   
   > Further, it takes a lot of land to feed yourself using   
   > primitive methods.  If everyone tried it, there would   
   > not be enough land for everyone.  Primitive methods   
   > could probably only support a world population of around   
   > one hundred million to perhaps a billion at most, and   
   > would utterly destroy the environment.   
   >   
   >> Management / rationing.   
   >>   
   >> On a kibbutz, let us say that you have farm managers   
   >> who are graduates in agricultural science and you have   
   >> a person who is unskilled, uneducated and often too   
   >> sick to work. Economically there is no difference   
   >> between them. They all have the same lifestyle. They   
   >> all receive the same amount of pocket money (some   
   >> kibbutzes have become Capitalist recently and pay   
   >> wages);   
   >   
   > Kibbutz operate in a market economy.  They buy their   
   > inputs, sell their outputs -- and -- what really pisses   
   > you guys off - what would in practice lead you to murder   
   > the kibbutzniks as the soviets murdered the kulaks --   
   > they defend their capital assets, usualy with full auto   
   > rifles.  Indeed the origin of the kibbutz, and to some   
   > considerable extent their continued existence, lies in   
   > the fact that collectives are good for large scale armed   
   > defense of property.  Where Jewish control of the ground   
   > is not strongly contested, the kibbutz form of ownership   
   > rapidly transforms into the fully private form of   
   > ownership.   
   >   
   > Arab and Jewish collectivism in land ownership is   
   > secondary to racial collectivism.  We see collective   
   > ownership of land by arabs in conflict with Jews, and   
   > collective ownership by Jews in conflict with arabs, but   
   > collective ownership by a collective composed of both   
   > Jews and arabs is unthinkable and utterly impossible.  A   
   > kibbutz, in practice, exists to sustain the property   
   > rights of some people by forcefully excluding other   
   > people, in a situation where that requires considerably   
   > greater force than a single family can easily provide.   
   >   
   > --   
   >  ----------------------   
   > We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because   
   > of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this   
   > right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.   
   >   
   > http://www.jim.com/      James A. Donald   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)