XPost: alt.anarchism, alt.philosophy, soc.culture.china   
   From: tommi.hoynalanmaa@iki.fi   
      
   The Messiah. Judge of Judgement Day: Lucifer Morning Star. kirjoitti:   
   > [b]Marxist Statism. 'The state will wither away'[/b]   
   >   
   > Of course this is both Utopian (impractical idealism) and   
   > contradictory. The 'contradiction:' if on one hand the police states of   
   > the armed violent monetarists (Capital=money) can 'only' be overthrown   
   > by armed violent anti-monetarists, why then is it that it will not be   
   > necessary to overthrow the dictatorship of armed violent so called   
   > anti-monetarists? Realistically can you imagine Kim Jong Il's police   
   > state just 'withering away' into independent collectives? The Soviet   
   > Union did not 'wither away' into independent collectives, but into   
   > hardcore Capitalism and the rule of the bankers and the mafia;   
   > Gorbachev is now a multi-millionaire (he was bribed); the state   
   > withered away into an elite of corrupt millionaires leaving the male   
   > proletariat often destitute and unemployed, and the women often fleeing   
   > economic hardship into a life a sex slavery in the brothels of Western   
   > Europe.   
      
   Would the collectives sell products to each other like private   
   companies? If we had a goldmine and a kindergarten the workers of the   
   latter might starve. The need of centralized planning arises from the   
   way that production works in modern economy. The different parts of the   
   economy need each other and they are not self-sufficient.   
      
   A Socialist society also needs armed forces if it coexists with   
   non-Socialist states. Thus the collectives can't be totally independent   
   in that kind of situation.   
      
   > [b]Materialism and non-spiritualism.[/b]   
   >   
   > Scientific Materialism is a 19th century pre-Einsteinian position. The   
   > Universe is not made of matter and 'all' physicists understand this now   
   > (challenge me on this if you like and I will explain further).   
      
   I think that General Theory of Relativity and Quantum Physics don't   
   change the fact that the universe consists of matter. They just tell us   
   that matter mey behave in strange ways.   
      
   > Materialism in the spiritual sense is a position of faith (i.e.,   
   > atheism). Marxists insist on atheism (apart from some Liberation   
   > Theologians who accept Marxist economics and reject his atheism),   
   > whereas Anarchist Communists may share a belief in non-monetarist,   
   > non-statist, economic Communism / collectivism and mutual cooperation,   
   > but they constitute a mixed bag of personal spiritual beliefs,   
   > 'including' atheists, but not exclusively since many neo-Pagans are   
   > Anarchists, so are many Christians ('do not carry money' - 'do not   
   > worship mammon' - 'consider the lilies' 'contra the rich and the   
   > religious hypocrites etc., etc., etc.,) and so are many New Agers, and   
   > Judaeo Communists (in the tradition of the prophets of slave   
   > revolution), etc., etc. Such people who represent the 'masses'   
   > would naturally resist Marxism because of Marx's insistence on atheism   
   > (and also tyranny). 'All' religion in my view is simply mass hypnosis   
   > and must be swept away, however personal spiritual beliefs are another   
   > matter entirely; therefore Anarchist Communism appeals more to the   
   > masses (who are mostly uneducated and superstitious) than Marxist   
   > atheism.   
      
   --   
   Tommi Höynälänmaa   
   sähköposti / e-mail: tommi.hoynalanmaa@iki.fi   
   kotisivu / homepage: http://www.iki.fi/tohoyn/   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)