XPost: alt.anarchism, alt.politics, alt.politics.socialism   
   XPost: alt.politics.liberalism   
   From: jamesd@echeque.com   
      
    James A. Donald:   
   > >> We already had this debate in the sixties.  We   
   > >> tried to find alternate methods of collective   
   > >> decision making, (participatory democracy and all   
   > >> that) and failed catastrophically.  A collectivity   
   > >> that makes real decisions has to be represented by   
   > >> one man, and that one man supervised by a not very   
   > >> large group.   
   > >>   
   > >> When we pretended we were doing something   
   > >> different, we in fact engaged in cynical fraud.   
      
   *Anarcissie*   
   > > If you want to insist on this and have everyone   
   > > believe you, you will have to post appropriate   
   > > sociological data.   
      
   Dan Clore   
   > He'll also have to go beyond his own experience in   
   > Trotskyist and Maoist grouplets. It would indeed by   
   > nothing but a cynical fraud to pretend that these   
   > grouplets tried to find methods of organization other   
   > than top-down authoritarian hierarchies similar to   
   > states and capitalist corporations.   
      
   The Maoists made the largest, longest and most sincere   
   effort to find some other way - and failed, and gave up.   
   The Soviet line communists, for example "Students for a   
   democratic society" (who after 1963 were a mere   
   loudspeaker for the Kremlin)  loudly announced they had   
   succeeded, after not trying very hard at all, but that   
   claim was transparently a lie.   
      
   --   
     ----------------------   
   We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because   
   of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this   
   right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.   
      
   http://www.jim.com/      James A. Donald   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)