XPost: alt.politics.socialism.trotsky, alt.philosophy.debate, al   
   .politics.socialism   
   XPost: alt.society.futures   
   From: yourekidding@spam.net   
      
   Roger Johansson  wrote in   
   news:1178227587.925819.115970@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:   
      
   > Newsgroups:   
   > alt.politics.socialism.trotsky,alt.philosophy.debate,alt.politics.socia   
   > lism,alt.politics.communism,alt.society.futures Subject: Re: Need help   
   > replying from Marxist perspective From: Roger Johansson   
   >    
   >   
   > On May 3, 5:38 pm, Haines Brown    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> My understanding is that Marx saw capitalism as consisting of two   
   >   
   > Digging through old ideologies is not a fruitful method to build a   
   > better society.   
   >   
   > I suggest we use another method. Start with our design goals, like   
   > engineers.   
   >   
   > We want a society which gives a maximum of individual freedom to every   
   > individual, because you want individual freedom, I want it, and most   
   > other people want it.   
   >   
   > So, how can we give everybody a maximum of individual freedom?   
   > Is it possible, and under what circumstances is it possible?   
   >   
   > It is not possible if some individual own a lot of land and resources,   
   > and control the production and transport systems and use it to create   
   > as much profit as possible, disregarding the needs of the other   
   > people.   
   >   
   > We need approximately the same amounts of material necessities as   
   > food, clothes and housing.   
   >   
   > Children get different possibilities in life depending on if their   
   > parents are rich or poor.   
   >   
   > The simplest way to solve this is to create material equality, giving   
   > everybody the same amount of personal property, like houses,   
   > apartments, cars and boats.   
   >   
   > This is easy to organize, by letting everybody register equal amounts   
   > of cars, gouses, apartments and boats in a car register, a property   
   > register.   
   >   
   > If we make all work voluntary we can achieve a maximum of personal   
   > freedom.   
   >   
   > We do not need a money system, so we can save a lot of administration   
   > and we can nullify the power of rich people. This will be the end of   
   > capitalism.   
   >   
   > All workplaces can be ruled democratically by the people who work   
   > there, but they cannot force anybody to do anything, because the   
   > individual freedom is the most important principle in the new society.   
   >   
   > Can we make this work, will enough people work voluntarily to produce   
   > enough food and transport it to the supermarkets, so we can go there   
   > and get food and clothes for free?   
   >   
   > Yes, I think so. Because already under capitalism only a few workers   
   > actually produce useful stuff like food and clothes.   
   >   
   > We want to live in a modern society, with mass production of food,   
   > computers, broadband connections, rational mass production of cars,   
   > potatos, toilet paper, and everything else we expect from a modern   
   > lifestyle.   
   >   
   > And this is possible.   
   >   
   > So why waste time reading 150 year old books and get bogged down in   
   > theoretical details, when we could work out the details of the new   
   > society and start spreading that program, so we can win the elections   
   > and start implementing this new society?   
   >   
   > --   
   > Roger J.   
   >   
   >   
   >   
      
   "We want a society which gives a maximum of individual freedom to every   
   individual, because you want individual freedom, I want it, and most   
   other people want it."   
      
   Sometimes I wonder Roger, do most people want "individual freedom" or are   
   they capable of the responsibility of "individual freedom", there is that   
   rare human being who sacrifices his life on some forgotten crucifix, and   
   there are the millions who perished in gas chambers, and so many more   
   millions who perished because of money or skin color, yet these tired old   
   questions continue to be debated in this wonderful modern internet age.   
      
      
   I agree, money is a large part of the problem, education, understanding   
   and being able to tear down the walls of ignorance and uncertainty in   
   'our society play a large role in the failure to suffering.   
      
      
   If you plan to engineer a more perfect world, then every one must   
   register , so that they may cast a vote, even the little children, and   
   when that election is tallied, the results will be beyond analysis, for   
   in the end, every citizen is part of the larger world and that part of   
   flesh and part of connection to the Eternal aspects of Existence  shall   
   Forever Prepare the Table and the Final Place, before unmentionable   
   splendor and grace and beauty that resides in the core of Infinite   
   Mystery.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)