XPost: alt.politics.libertarian, alt.politics, alt.politics.socialism   
   From: roger4911@yahoo.com   
      
   On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 09:57:18 -0700, wsthomas@bellsouth.net wrote:   
      
      
   >> The property register will function exactly like the car register does   
   >> today. After you have registered yourself as the owner of that car, or   
   >> that house, apartment or boat it is yours, to keep for the rest of   
   >> your life if you like. That is property in the same sense as today.   
      
   > But, in the care register today (and it is not a 'car register', it is   
   > 'car licensing', a way to pay taxes to use the roads), you have to pay   
   > for a car, and you're able to buy as expensive car you want.  Or as   
   > many cars as you want.   
   >   
   > Bad comparison there, bub.   
      
   I already told you that we will abolish the money system.   
   So if we look at the function of the car register, without money   
   transactions, it works just like it will work in the money-free system.   
   You tell the register you want to be owner of the car with the register   
   number TXS2345ST and you are registered as the owner of that car.   
      
   The combined car, land, house, apartment and boat register, (the property   
   register), will also have knowledge of the value of each property item, and   
   you can only register property up to the same total value limit as   
   everybody else.   
   But the limit will be raised as new items are produced.   
      
   >> It is up to each person to choose what to own, but we will all have   
   >> the same maximum limit of value.   
      
   > Complete and utter bullshit.  Wealth is created.  You are not 'owed' a   
   > certain amount of land, a living stipend or a car.  You do not have a   
   > 'right' to any of it.  You have a right to earn it, but not a right to   
   > be granted it.  There is a term for claiming for your own, without   
   > just compensation, wealth created by others.  It's called "Slavery".   
      
   Democracy means that the people have the right to rule themselves.   
   We have the right to vote for any constitution we like and we can make the   
   laws we want to live under.   
      
   If we decide that all cars must drive on the right side of the way that is   
   the rule we have to follow.   
   If we vote for material equality, equal property rights, voluntary work,   
   free consumption, individual freedom, then those are the rights we have as   
   citizens.   
      
   The rules in the capitalist society were written by violent and ruthless   
   elites who claimed the land and forced people to use the money they   
   printed. It is called wage-slavery, which was a development of chattel   
   slavery, feudalism and other forms of slavery.   
      
   The system I suggest we vote for is the first non-slavery system, the first   
   system which puts individual freedom as the highest goal, the first really   
   democratic system.   
      
   Many countries which call themselves democracies today are actually ruled   
   by economic or religious elites, who control the media channels and keep   
   the people confused and angry,  so the people cannot think clearly and vote   
   for their own best interest.   
      
      
   > Tractors controlled by remote computors?  What happens when you get   
   > the blue screen of death?  Or when your computer goes apeshit and runs   
   > over the farmhouse?   
   >   
   > Again, evidence is not on your side.   
      
   50 years ago a man named Jurij Gagarin took place in a space rocket.   
   He had a sealed envelope containing a code which would allow him to take   
   manual control of the space vehicle. But he did not need to open the   
   envelope. The computer controlled space vehicle took him exactly one turn   
   around the earth in a little more than one hour, and he landed safely.   
      
   A lot has happened since then, and we have developed a lot more reliable   
   computer control systems. Do you understand that evidence?   
      
      
   > You'll always need plumbers.   
      
   Plumbers in my country do not bend and weld copper pipes anymore.   
   They have plastic parts which click together, so anybody can do the   
   plumbing in their own bathrooms and kitchens if they like.   
      
   > You can't design any system that will   
   > work autonomously without breaking down.  You can't design the human   
   > element out of manufacturing.  You can get computers to make it more   
   > efficient and quicker, but they can not run the system.   
      
   A lot of youngsters are interested in technical stuff, and they become   
   civil engineers and many of them will probably work voluntarily,   
   supervising a computerized factory.   
      
      
   >> The garbage collectors come driving in airconditioned trucks once   
   >> every two weeks, and replace the filled containers with empty ones,   
   >> and they do not even have to get out of the trucks to do it, there are   
   >> mechanized arms coming out of the truck and lifting the whole   
   >> container, and empty it automatically at a bigger dump place where the   
   >> garbage is processed further.   
   >   
   > Okay, but you've just switched the majority on the work for the worker   
   > to the consumer (i.e. you're hauling your own garbage).   
      
   Yes, and we have no mexican women who clean our homes and wash our clothes.   
   We clean our own toilets. We have abolished slavery.   
      
   > There are still as many people at the landfill,   
      
   The garbage does not end up in a landfill, it is recycled and used again.   
   Biological household garbage goes into a compost and becomes planting soil,   
   for example.   
      
   > I'll make it even easier.  Give me any REASON why such a system should   
   > even be attempted (and don't say that people have a 'right' to such a   
   > system.  They don't.).   
      
   We have the rights we decide for ourselves, that's the essence of   
   democracy.   
      
   Why we would attempt a new system, where the individual is free to think   
   and decide for himself? Why we would abolish money and all the violence and   
   wasted resources which goes into the managing it?   
      
   Why we would abolish poverty, bank robberies, theft, slavery, hate and   
   bitterness, gangsterism, greed and social dominance?   
      
   Because the new system is much better for everybody.   
   Because we do not have to waste all the work and worries involved in the   
   money system.   
   Because it will allow everybody to think and decide for himself what to do,   
   instead of being controlled by a bunch of very rich guys who are not even   
   interested in the wellbeing of the people, they are only interested in   
   maximizing the profit.   
      
   --   
   Roger J.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)