XPost: alt.politics.libertarian, alt.politics, alt.politics.socialism   
   From: roger4911@yahoo.com   
      
   On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:47:10 -0700, wsthomas@bellsouth.net wrote:   
      
      
   >> Democracy means that the people have the right to rule themselves.   
   >> We have the right to vote for any constitution we like and we can make the   
   >> laws we want to live under.   
      
   > Let me know when you realize that this country is not a Democracy.   
   > (hint: it's a Republic..which happens to use a type of Democracy to   
   > ellect its representatives)   
      
   Please realize that this is not a national newsgroup, it is a global   
   newsgroup. I live on the other side of this planet in a country you know   
   practically nothing about.   
      
   You don't know much about the world outside your own country, but I can   
   tell you that most of the people in the world live in what you would call   
   socialist or even communist countries, with mixed economies, welfare   
   systems, free health care and free schools. We allow a certain amount of   
   capitalism because we need to compete for investment capital, but we are   
   just waiting for the moment when we can abolish capitalism.   
      
   Soviet, China and even Cuba have adjusted and opened up their systems to   
   play the freemarket investment capital game, but they have not given up   
   their long time goals like the abolishment of capitalism.   
   Neither have Europe, Latin America and India, and now an African Union is   
   being formed, after the model of EU.   
      
   > And let me know how many people vote to get rid of their   
   > salaries.... ;-)   
      
   If they can get rid of all their economical worries, become free   
   individuals and make their own decisions, and live in a peaceful world   
   where you don't have to worry about being robbed or killed for money, then   
   i think a lot of people will vote for that solution.   
      
      
   >> It is called wage-slavery, which was a development of chattel   
   >> slavery, feudalism and other forms of slavery.   
      
   > I don't know where you get your information, but the monetary system   
   > has nothing to do with 'slavery', it's derived from pre-history when   
   > cavement Og, Uk and Leroy decided to keep track of who does what by   
   > trading funny shapped rocks.   
      
   That is a myth spread to justify capitalism.   
   A real case of how money came into existence is when the spanish armies   
   invaded south america, they "claimed" the land and all people and animals   
   there as the property of the king of Spain.   
      
   They forced the indians to work to get spanish money, so they could buy the   
   food they had produced from the spaniards who owned the shops and   
   controlled the transport and production system.   
   Big parts of the land became big capital.   
      
      
   >> 50 years ago a man named Jurij Gagarin took place in a space rocket.   
   >> He had a sealed envelope containing a code which would allow him to take   
   >> manual control of the space vehicle. But he did not need to open the   
   >> envelope. The computer controlled space vehicle took him exactly one turn   
   >> around the earth in a little more than one hour, and he landed safely.   
      
   > Okay, a very simple ballistic course.   
      
   A ballistic curve is when no forces affect the projectile, like an old   
   cannonball. Gagarin's vehicle needed a control system which ejected the   
   start stage, started the next stage, and kept the vehicle at a certain   
   attitude and started the breaking rocket and detached the last module from   
   the middle section, etc..   
      
   > This is less complicated than   
   > tilling a field. You can do the math on an abicus.  But the 'computer'   
   > he had wouldn't even amount to a decent calculator today.  And he   
   > missed the landing area by 8000km   
      
   Totally wrong, he landed exactly where he was expected to land.   
      
   > And, truth be know, while he went   
   > around the Earth, he truly did not make a complete orbit, as he landed   
   > quite a bit west of where he took off.   
      
   He made exactly one orbit. Draw a line perpendicular to the starting   
   course, northeast, and you have the starting line. That starting line   
   passes Bajkonur and Engels. He landed on the same line after exactly one   
   turn around the earth. But the earth had, of course, turned 15 degrees   
   during the hour the trip took, so he landed 15 degrees west of the starting   
   point, near the city of Engels on the Volga river.   
      
   And, by the way, the distance between Bajkonur and Engels is around 1500   
   km, so even ignoring the rotation of the earth during the flight he landed   
   only 1500 km away from the starting point.   
   But, of course, the russians knew that the earth would rotate while he   
   travelled, so he landed exactly where they had planned the landing.   
      
   >> Plumbers in my country do not bend and weld copper pipes anymore.   
   >> They have plastic parts which click together, so anybody can do the   
   >> plumbing in their own bathrooms and kitchens if they like.   
      
   > You let each homeowner, no matter how stupid, do thier own plumbing?   
      
   We have tv shows about do-it-yourself plumbing.   
      
      
   > You seem to think that people are all out to do good things for   
   > humanity just because it feels good.  You must not know very many   
   > people.   
      
   I know a lot of non-americans in real life. I travelled by hitchhiking for   
   many years in Europe and Asia and met a lot of people.   
   I have also read a lot of books about people during my life.   
   Only on usenet have I met really  stupid and aggressive people, and they   
   practically always come from USA. They use words like "bullshit" and   
   "damned commie" instead of using rational arguments in a civilized   
   discussion   
      
      
   > People will not want to steal others registered property to use   
   > for themselves?  You have not proven this.   
      
   Theft will not be allowed in the new society, just tell the police that   
   your car has been stolen and they will soon find it.   
      
   > Nor does human nature   
   > suggest that it will come to pass.   
      
   What you call human nature is the capitalist culture.   
   When we make the society softer and nicer people will happily adapt to the   
   new situation.   
      
   > Go ahead, attempt to get it passed.  The entire world would have to go   
   > for it.  And it ain't gonna happen.  Every soverign country will fight   
   > you back to the stone age.   
      
   With "Every soverign country" you mean USA I guess?   
   Is that why you have your defence forces spread out all over the globe?   
      
   But we who live in the rest of the world are not stupid. We will play your   
   "free market" game and outcompete you at it.   
   Notice how the dollar keeps falling and falling?   
   Do you realize how the reputation and influence of USA is decreasing with   
   every prisoner you torture in public, with every war you start without real   
   reasons? With all investment capital flowing out of the country.   
      
   For 400 years USA could enjoy a steady inflow of foreign investment capital   
   and new immigrants. It is easy to be successful under those circumstances,   
   no matter what economical system you use. Now american capital is invested   
   in Malaysia, China, Russia, eastern Europe, etc.. Now USA has the chance to   
   show how good capitalism actually works, in competition with a lot of other   
   countries who get similar amounts of investment capital but use socialist   
   welfare systems.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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