0e3d0248
XPost: alt.politics, alt.politics.immigration, alt.anarchism
XPost: alt.politics.socialism
From: clore@columbia-center.org
*Anarcissie* wrote:
> On Dec 17, 8:28 pm, Mike wrote:
>> On Dec 17, 3:33 pm, "*Anarcissie*" wrote:
>>> On Dec 17, 3:14 pm, Grendel wrote:
>>>> On Dec 17, 2:01 pm, "*Anarcissie*" wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 17, 12:45 pm, Grendel wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 17, 11:16 am, uri wrote:
>>>>>>> Why for heaven's sake isn't it possible to let everyone live in the
>>>>>>> country he wants without being deported and put in jail?
>>>>>> Because that is the way we, as a nation, want it. We, as a nation,
>>>>>> enjoy Sovereignty over our territory. Sovereignty is the exclusive
>>>>>> right to complete control over an area of governance, people, or
>>>>>> oneself.
>>>>>> We are a nation of people who has decided who we will, and who we will
>>>>>> not, allow in our country. This is our right as a nation.
>>>>>> Don't bug us with how YOU think things should be. What YOU believe
>>>>>> has no bearing in the matter. WE, as a nation, get to decide.
>>>>> That's not a reason,
>>>> It is not only a reason, it is THE reason. That is what a country
>>>> IS. A Sovereign State, a political division of a geographical entity,
>>>> a sovereign territory.
>>>> That means, we make our rules. Our rules state that if you enter this
>>>> country illegally, you are a criminal and will be sent back out. We
>>>> don't want you. And we have the right to kick your ass out.
>>>>> it's just an argument from power.
>>>> Yes, the power that we all got together, as a nation, and decided that
>>>> we don't want illegals here. As a sovereign nation, that is our
>>>> right, and there is nothing you can do about it.
>>>>> You're in fact suggesting there is no reason -- that the
>>>>> exclusion of (some) people is arbitrary.
>>>> Not arbitrary, at the discretion of the sovereign nation. The reason
>>>> is because WE SAY SO.
>>> That's what "arbitrary" means.
>>> Oh, well....- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Then you are saying all laws are arbitrary. Like many other laws who
>> have their basis in the valid, rational purpose of promoting order and
>> the public good, there is a sound reason to have and to uphold
>> immigration law.
>
> "Promoting order and the public good" is a reason for having
> a law which refers to something beside the lawmaker's will.
> It is, therefore, not arbitrary even if it is wrong. "Because we
> say so", which refer to nothing but the lawmaker's will, is
> arbitrary -- that is what the word _means_. However, the fact
> that Grendel can carefully copy out the entire definition from
> a dictionary and still not get it discourages me from carrying
> the conversation any further -- I'm not up for teaching grade-
> school English.
It's also rather remarkable that he keeps referring to "we" (or "WE"),
when this "we" excludes a large number of "us" -- including you and me.
Perhaps "we" should deport this guy?
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://tinyurl.com/3akhhr
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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