77790999   
   XPost: alt.politics.immigration, soc.rights.human   
   From: strabo@flashlight.net   
      
   Michael Price wrote:   
   > On Sep 16, 6:37 pm, jimj122...@yahoo.com wrote:   
   >> On Sep 15, 9:28 am, DarkMatter  wrote:   
      
   >> What a load of philisophical bullshit.  Let me clue you in.  This   
   >> isn't 5,000 years ago when people were free to wander to globe   
   >> unrestricted.  Today we have these things called nations and they are   
   >> defined by physical borders.  The world is carved up into about 185   
   >> nations.  In particular, the United States is a nation and we have   
   >> borders.   
   >   
   >   So what?  How does saying "We have a nation" grant you the right to   
   > initiate force on those who enter it?   
   >   
      
   Your premise is wrong.   
      
   Defending ones borders IS NOT initiating force.   
      
   It is the same Right that we have to defend our homes.   
      
   That should not be difficult to understand.  But since you will   
   continue to insist on promoting illegal aliens we can dispense   
   with the niceties.   
      
      
    >   
   >>  The USA is also a welfare state (albeit, not on the level of   
   >> many European nations, but still a welfare state).  People can't just   
   >> wander into the USA because they then (invariably) become a public   
   >> charge in their gross useage of taxpayer funded services.   
   >   
   >   Actually no, typically illegal immigrants are a net positive to the   
   > tax base.  In any case if that's the problem then simply stop being   
   > a welfare state.   
   >   
      
   1) The US is not a welfare state.   
      
   2) Your analysis of illegal alien econometrics is irrelevant.   
      
   3) The federal government caused the illegal alien invasion even as   
       85% of Americans polled demand it stop. The federal government is   
       beyond American control. It has been subverted.   
      
   4) We don't accept your agitprop.   
      
      
      
    >   
   >>  And don't tell me "they pay taxes".  Yes, they pay a little sales tax on   
   things   
   >> they buy and perhaps contibute a little to SS tax (those who are   
   >> stealing some American's SS# to work "on the books")   
   >   
   >   A little?  They're one of the few things almost keeping it solvent.   
   > Like   
   > most people in america SS taxes are their biggest tax.   
   >   
   >> but the cost of   
   >> the social services they use FAR outweigh any tax contribution illegal   
   >> immigrants make.   
   >   
   >   Nope.   
   >   
   >> I, as a citizen of the USA, have, by default, subscribed to the social   
   >> system we have in place in this nation.  It is unfair to burden me and   
   >> my tax contribution to any wandering soul who crosses into the USA and   
   >> spits out untold numbers of anchor babies which slap me with huge   
   >> hospital costs, education costs, WIC costs, food stamp costs, welfare   
   >> costs, section 8 housing costs, etc.   
   >   
   >   
   >   If it's unfair for people from other places to burden your welfare   
   > system why   
   > is it fair for you to do it?  In any case you haven't answered the   
   > claim that   
   > restricting people's movements violates their natural rights, which it   
   > does.   
   > They have the right to do anything non-aggressive and crossing a   
   > border   
   > isn't aggressive.   
    >   
      
   Same thing as breaking down one's front door and taking over his   
   home. You'll deny that but it doesn't matter.   
      
   Oh yeah, it's aggressive but that's OK, aggression can be invigorating.   
      
      
      
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