d5517df1
XPost: alt.anarchism, alt.politics.socialism, alt.philosophy.objectivism
From: pub?@?li.us
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 07:59:09 -0800 (PST), Mike wrote:
>On Nov 2, 7:53 pm, publius2k wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 21:20:55 -0700 (PDT), Mike wrote:
>> >On Oct 27, 10:54 am, publius2k wrote:
>> >> The enabling legislation for the 'foreclosure crisis' was The Bankruptcy
Abuse Prevention
>> >> and Consumer Protection Act of 2005
>>
>> >> This ill-guided law guaranteed that the government would be the
strongarm enforcers for
>> >> the loansharks, the predatory lenders. Without the government
guarantees provided by
>> >> BAPCPA, no bank would have lent 125% on appraised value.
>>
>> >I'm sure that contributed but I don't think it was the sole culprit. I
>> >was wondering about your
>> >take on Greenspan's confession of a flaw in his economic reality; he
>> >had expected finacial
>> >institutions to do what is best for their shareholders.
>>
>> I totally agree, it was not the sole factor but did contribute to the
atmosphere that it
>> was safe to lend at any rate since they could squeeze the people to pay
regardless of the
>> value of the collateral with the new restrictions on bankruptcy relief.
>>
>> Greenspan didn't face the reality that greed fosters theft. those in
positions of
>> exploitation, since their underlying worldview is one based on selfishness
and greed were
>> likely to descend to dog eat dog, me first and screw the clients and the
stockholders.
>> dogs biting their masters, the hand that feeds them. There should be a
national registry
>> of such greedy bastards and a prohibition of them being employed in
positions related to
>> investments, loans etc.
>>
>> When it started to break, my dream was to let it fall, let the damn
bloodsucking empire
>> collapse. And from the ashes perhaps an egalitarian world would arise.
all we need is a
>> few memes.
>>
>
>Memes? I think the collapse of the global economy would result in
>anarchy rather than
>egalitrianism.
I think anarchy is a prerequisite for egalitarianism. Not chaos...anarchy -
no rulers, no
bosses, no dictators, no elected 'deciders'.
"A life lived free of toil and tyranny, free of masters, free of greed and the
struggle
for gain, became so much the key picture presented by the first historian of
the New
World, Peter Martyr of Anghiera, that his English translator summed it up in
the repeated
word 'liberty'. Their "aunciente libertie" (says this translator, Richard
Eden, writing
in the 1550s) had made the New World people "most happye of all men." They
were living in
the golden age, wrote Peter Martyr (and explained Richard Eden, "of whiche
owlde wryters
speake so much: wherin men lyved simply and innocentlye") without even weights
and
measures to cause disputes, free of lawsuits and law enforcement, free of
calumniating
judges and the resultant learned professions of craft and deceit, free of
books, free of
the pernicious presence of deadly money, content only to satisfy nature --
and, added
Richard Eden to his translation, incapable of servitude, having "been ever soo
used to
live at libertie, in play and pastyme."
"I am convinced that those societies (as the Indians) which live without
government enjoy
in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who
live under
the European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of
law, &
restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere." - Thomas Jefferson
> I had expected this crisis to weed out unfit
>corporations but the "bloodsucking"
>is much more pervasive, it was just a matter of time before our debts
>became unsustainable
>and credit dried up.
>
>
>> "After his visit to the 'Five Tribes', Dawes noted of the Cherokee "The
head chief told us
>> that there was not a family in that whole Nation that had not a home of its
own. There is
>> not a pauper in that Nation, and the Nation does not owe a dollar. It built
its own
>> capitol, in which we had this examination, and built its schools and
hospitals. Yet the
>> defect of the system was apparent. They have got as far as they can go,
because they hold
>> their land in common. It is Henry George's system, and under that there is
no enterprise
>> to make your home any better than that of your neighbors. There is no
selfishness, which
>> is at the bottom of civilization. Till these people will consent to give up
their lands,
>> and divide them among their citizens so that each can own the land he
cultivates, they
>> will not make much progress." - Redbird Smith and the Nighthawk Keetoowahs
[1983 - p. 31]
>> by Janey B. Hendrix
>>
>> "There is no selfishness, which is [the foundation] of [what Euro-Americans
call]
>> civilization." "because they hold their land in common." - Dawes
>>
>> 'That, on the principle of a communion of property, small societies may
exist in habits of
>> virtue, order, industry, and peace, and consequently in a state of as much
happiness as
>> Heaven has been pleased to deal out to imperfect humanity, I can readily
conceive, and
>> indeed, have seen its proofs in various small societies which have been
constituted on
>> that principle.'-Thomas Jefferson [1822]
>>
>
>Selfishness may be the basis of capitalism but I think
>civilization is based on compromise if not cooperation. As
>a NA I regret the loss of land and deplore the loss of life yet
>do not regret progress. The natives were living barely above
>subsistance levels with stone age technology.
The Mexica had the largest, cleanest city in the world when Cortez invaded.
Living at subsistance level was a choice, and a good one. It is sustainable.
Use what
you need and no more. According to Gerry Spence:
"Work as an abstract activity, undertaken for itself, has no merit. Native
man did not
work. He hunted, which was his pleasure. He gathered, which was his joy.
Anthropologists insist that in his nascent state man was engaged in providing
himself food
but an hour or two a day. And that was not work. It was his play, his
adventure, the
fulfillment of his genetic purpose. Work was unknown to native man."
"...incapable of servitude, having "been ever soo used to live at libertie, in
play and
pastyme." "
"Among the people there, he wrote, "Myne and Thyne (the seedes of all
myscheefe) have no
place . . ." (In his origin Latin, "necque meum aut tuum, malorum omnie semina
. . .")
Land was held in common, as free to all as the sunlight or the sea, "in open
gardens, not
intrenched with dykes, dyvyded with hedges, or defended with waules. They
deal trewely
one with another, without lawes, without bookes, and without Judges." They
lived without
toil, he was informed, so bounteous was their fair country and so innocent
their wants, in
their "free kynde of life" that was "given to Idlenes and playe."
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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