XPost: alt.atheism, alt.politics, aus.politics   
   XPost: alt.religion, aus.religion, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: alt.politics.democrats, uk.politics.misc   
   From: herpem@bigpond.com   
      
   "Kate "  wrote in message   
   news:49d95b6b.1385682562@news-west.newscene.com...   
   > On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 01:12:29 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >   
   >>   
   >>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>news:49d0bf9b.1345794281@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 13:48:05 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>news:49cea36c.1338579328@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 03:43:07 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>news:49ccf6c7.1294382062@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:33:34 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>news:49c8b164.1276619859@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 06:22:16 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>"Peter Webb"  wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>message   
   >>>>>>>>>>news:4983e8a8$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Atheists have done lots of bad things, but not because they are   
   >>>>>>>>>>> atheists,   
   >>>>>>>>>>> but because they are bad people.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Whereas Muslim terrorists do bad things because they are   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Muslims.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Atheism is not comparable to having religious beliefs; religious   
   >>>>>>>>>>> nutters   
   >>>>>>>>>>> quite often kill people for religious reasons; atheists do not.   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Atheism   
   >>>>>>>>>>> is   
   >>>>>>>>>>> not a religion, and it does not dictate how people should live   
   >>>>>>>>>>> and   
   >>>>>>>>>>> who   
   >>>>>>>>>>> they should hate.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>Let me see if I got that right.   
   >>>>>>>>>>Atheists do bad thinngs because they are bad people.   
   >>>>>>>>>>Christians do bad things, not because they are bad people, but   
   >>>>>>>>>>because   
   >>>>>>>>>>they   
   >>>>>>>>>>are religious.   
   >>>>>>>>>>Is that an Irish joke?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> The point is, atheism doesn't justify doing bad things, religion   
   >>>>>>>>> does.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Good people do bad things, like not let gay people marry, because   
   >>>>>>>>> of   
   >>>>>>>>> religion.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>"At that time many will call evil good and they will call good   
   >>>>>>>>evil."   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Precisely - if you rely on religion to tell you what's good,   
   >>>>>>> eventually your progeny will disown you.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>Why?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Because what you did wasn't truly moral - religion isn't about   
   >>>>> defining morality, it's about power and tribalism.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>If not religion, then who defines morality?   
   >>>>Where does morality come from?   
   >>>   
   >>> Our social genes.   
   >>   
   >>I'm not bible bashing but maybe the following is interestinng for you.   
   >>   
   >>The Bible says the following:   
   >>When Gentiles who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law,   
   >>these, although not having the law are a law to themselves   
   >>Who show the work of the law written in their hearths, their conscience   
   >>also   
   >>bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else   
   >>excusing them.   
   >>In other words, social genes is God's law written in the hearth of man.   
   >>   
   >>The Catholic church, rather than being authoritarian and controlling has   
   >>this to say:   
   >>From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:   
   >>"20. Conscience, in Catholic teaching, is God's law written on the human   
   >>heart (CCC 1777-1802). It is "the most secret core and sanctuary of a man"   
   >>where "he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths." To obey   
   >>conscience "is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged"   
   >>(Gaudium et Spes 16). We are always obliged to follow our conscience   
   >>because   
   >>it is our last and best judgment about the morality of a particular act."   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> Think about it - morality is about what helps the group over   
   >>> individuals.   
   >>   
   >>Can you give me one example where Christian morality differs from this.   
   >   
   > I can't define 'Christian morality' - there is no objective standard   
   > for it.   
      
   Try the Bible   
      
   >   
   > All people have social genetic morality - except sociopaths.  Theists   
   > just attribute theirs to their religion, and then turn around to use   
   > religion to behave in antisocial ways,   
      
   No, they behave in an antisocial way and then try to quieten their guilty   
   conscience by pretending to follow religion.   
      
      
   such as slavery, child abuse,   
   > spouse abuse, abuse of women, abuse of people of different races....   
   > and we could go on for quite a while.  Pretty much any horrible thing   
   > you can think of has been justified with religion.   
      
   Yes, and without religion they will try to justify it any other way. It is   
   not religion that is to be blamed for all those things, it is people who do   
   wrong.   
      
      
   It's pretty damn   
   > handy for that. Who can argue with you that an invisible all powerful,   
   > won't show up for any scientific test being has or has not validated   
   > your actions?   
   >   
   >   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)