XPost: alt.atheism, alt.politics, aus.politics   
   XPost: alt.religion, aus.religion, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: alt.politics.democrats, uk.politics.misc   
   From: herpem@bigpond.com   
      
   "Darrell Stec"  wrote in message   
   news:6upkqrFghna2U1@mid.individual.net...   
   > HD wrote:   
   >   
   >>   
   >> "Darrell Stec"  wrote in message   
   >> news:6uodidFgfbhdU3@mid.individual.net...   
   >>> HD wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>> news:49d95b6b.1385682562@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 01:12:29 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>news:49d0bf9b.1345794281@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 13:48:05 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>news:49cea36c.1338579328@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 03:43:07 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>news:49ccf6c7.1294382062@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:33:34 GMT, "HD"    
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>news:49c8b164.1276619859@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 06:22:16 GMT, "HD"    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Peter Webb"  wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:4983e8a8$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheists have done lots of bad things, but not because they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atheists,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but because they are bad people.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whereas Muslim terrorists do bad things because they are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheism is not comparable to having religious beliefs;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious nutters   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite often kill people for religious reasons; atheists do   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheism   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a religion, and it does not dictate how people should   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they should hate.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Let me see if I got that right.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Atheists do bad thinngs because they are bad people.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Christians do bad things, not because they are bad people, but   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>because   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>are religious.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Is that an Irish joke?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> The point is, atheism doesn't justify doing bad things,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> religion does.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Good people do bad things, like not let gay people marry,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> because   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> religion.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>"At that time many will call evil good and they will call good   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>evil."   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Precisely - if you rely on religion to tell you what's good,   
   >>>>>>>>>>> eventually your progeny will disown you.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>Why?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Because what you did wasn't truly moral - religion isn't about   
   >>>>>>>>> defining morality, it's about power and tribalism.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>If not religion, then who defines morality?   
   >>>>>>>>Where does morality come from?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Our social genes.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>I'm not bible bashing but maybe the following is interestinng for you.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>The Bible says the following:   
   >>>>>>When Gentiles who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the   
   >>>>>>law, these, although not having the law are a law to themselves   
   >>>>>>Who show the work of the law written in their hearths, their   
   >>>>>>conscience   
   >>>>>>also   
   >>>>>>bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or   
   >>>>>>else   
   >>>>>>excusing them.   
   >>>>>>In other words, social genes is God's law written in the hearth of   
   >>>>>>man.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>The Catholic church, rather than being authoritarian and controlling   
   >>>>>>has this to say:   
   >>>>>>From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:   
   >>>>>>"20. Conscience, in Catholic teaching, is God's law written on the   
   >>>>>>human heart (CCC 1777-1802). It is "the most secret core and sanctuary   
   >>>>>>of a man" where "he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his   
   >>>>>>depths." To obey conscience "is the very dignity of man; according to   
   >>>>>>it he will be judged" (Gaudium et Spes 16). We are always obliged to   
   >>>>>>follow our conscience because   
   >>>>>>it is our last and best judgment about the morality of a particular   
   >>>>>>act."   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Think about it - morality is about what helps the group over   
   >>>>>>> individuals.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>Can you give me one example where Christian morality differs from   
   >>>>>>this.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I can't define 'Christian morality' - there is no objective standard   
   >>>>> for it.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Try the Bible   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Which bible?  They all don't say the same thing.  And which of all the   
   >>> various contradictory ideas are we to use to define Christian morality?   
   >>> Perhaps based upon your great knowledge of the bible, you can answer a   
   >>> few questions to help us out about this biblical morality.   
   >>> **********   
   >>> How does one determine which might deceive the reader:   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Now you did it.   
   >> By Cutting, pasting and scanning text that is not in English you try to   
   >> appear superior and highly educated.   
   >> You are a fraud when you have to use such methods.   
   >> I could reply to you in German or a couple of other languages that are   
   >> not   
   >> part of any translation services, but that would be just as silly as what   
   >> you do.   
   >>   
   >   
   > Yes I did cut and paste.  But what I cut and pasted came off my own stored   
   > files created by me and me alone.  A good indication of this is that I   
   > used   
   > a slightly less frequently used (although an acceptable) transliteration.   
   > I used transliteration because many Newsreaders cannot render the Greek   
   > and   
   > Hebrew fonts.  Besides theology, I also have a formal education in all of   
   > those languages.  And a few more.  By the way, do you think you are the   
   > only one to study German in high school and college?   
      
   Actually, English is my second Language.   
   I also understand Boholano, Ilocano and Ilongo, plus some Japanese. That   
   doesn't make me a smart person. Even the scribes who killed Jesus spoke many   
   languages. Since we all have English in common it would have been good   
   manners if nothing else to quote those passages in English. Maybe the   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)