XPost: alt.atheism, alt.politics, aus.politics   
   XPost: alt.religion, aus.religion, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: alt.politics.democrats, uk.politics.misc   
   From: darstec@neo.rr.com   
      
   HD wrote:   
      
   >   
   > "Kate "  wrote in message   
   > news:49e3d191.1481464828@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:15:01 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>news:49e19720.1466503546@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 15:08:46 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>news:49ddfb99.1426688859@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:34:35 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>news:49d95b6b.1385682562@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 01:12:29 GMT, "HD"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>news:49d0bf9b.1345794281@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 13:48:05 GMT, "HD"    
   >>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>news:49cea36c.1338579328@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 03:43:07 GMT, "HD"    
   >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>news:49ccf6c7.1294382062@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:33:34 GMT, "HD"    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Kate "  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:49c8b164.1276619859@news-west.newscene.com...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 06:22:16 GMT, "HD"    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Peter Webb"  wrote   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:4983e8a8$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheists have done lots of bad things, but not because   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atheists,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but because they are bad people.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whereas Muslim terrorists do bad things because they are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheism is not comparable to having religious beliefs;   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nutters   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite often kill people for religious reasons; atheists   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do not.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheism   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a religion, and it does not dictate how people should   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they should hate.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Let me see if I got that right.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Atheists do bad thinngs because they are bad people.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Christians do bad things, not because they are bad people,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>but   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>because   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>are religious.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Is that an Irish joke?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The point is, atheism doesn't justify doing bad things,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religion   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good people do bad things, like not let gay people marry,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religion.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"At that time many will call evil good and they will call   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>good evil."   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Precisely - if you rely on religion to tell you what's good,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> eventually your progeny will disown you.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>Why?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Because what you did wasn't truly moral - religion isn't about   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> defining morality, it's about power and tribalism.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>If not religion, then who defines morality?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>Where does morality come from?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Our social genes.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>I'm not bible bashing but maybe the following is interestinng for   
   >>>>>>>>>you.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>The Bible says the following:   
   >>>>>>>>>When Gentiles who do not have the law, by nature do the things in   
   >>>>>>>>>the   
   >>>>>>>>>law,   
   >>>>>>>>>these, although not having the law are a law to themselves   
   >>>>>>>>>Who show the work of the law written in their hearths, their   
   >>>>>>>>>conscience   
   >>>>>>>>>also   
   >>>>>>>>>bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or   
   >>>>>>>>>else   
   >>>>>>>>>excusing them.   
   >>>>>>>>>In other words, social genes is God's law written in the hearth of   
   >>>>>>>>>man.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>The Catholic church, rather than being authoritarian and   
   >>>>>>>>>controlling has   
   >>>>>>>>>this to say:   
   >>>>>>>>>From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:   
   >>>>>>>>>"20. Conscience, in Catholic teaching, is God's law written on the   
   >>>>>>>>>human   
   >>>>>>>>>heart (CCC 1777-1802). It is "the most secret core and sanctuary of   
   >>>>>>>>>a   
   >>>>>>>>>man"   
   >>>>>>>>>where "he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths." To   
   >>>>>>>>>obey   
   >>>>>>>>>conscience "is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be   
   >>>>>>>>>judged"   
   >>>>>>>>>(Gaudium et Spes 16). We are always obliged to follow our   
   >>>>>>>>>conscience because   
   >>>>>>>>>it is our last and best judgment about the morality of a particular   
   >>>>>>>>>act."   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Think about it - morality is about what helps the group over   
   >>>>>>>>>> individuals.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>Can you give me one example where Christian morality differs from   
   >>>>>>>>>this.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> I can't define 'Christian morality' - there is no objective   
   >>>>>>>> standard for it.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>Try the Bible   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Which one?  There are dozens - and they don't offer an objective   
   >>>>>> standard - only vague conflicting stories.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>The Bible to look for is the Latin translation by St. Jerome who had   
   >>>>>all the   
   >>>>>original manuscripts both in Aramaic and Greek. That Bible has been   
   >>>>>translated in every language.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Why that one, when there are so many others - did you pick it out of a   
   >>>> lineup?   
   >>>   
   >>>Because it was written by St.Jerome who had original manuscripts.   
   >>>Later Bibles are mostly translations innto different languages. The one   
   >>>exepptionn is the NKJ that was especcially written for Baptists to   
   >>>contradict Catholics.   
   >>   
   >> I see, you have proof that St. Jerome had the original manuscripts   
   >> approved by your god?   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> What gives you the authority?   
   >>>   
   >>>You did. When you ask a question you give me the authority to answer..   
   >>   
      
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