XPost: alt.atheism, alt.politics, aus.politics
XPost: alt.religion, aus.religion, alt.politics.republicans
XPost: alt.politics.democrats, uk.politics.misc
From: cary@afone.as.arizona.edu
In article <49edf725.1556620109@news-west.newscene.com> cobalt@newscene.com
(Kate ) writes:
> 919$cu.979@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <49e3d191.1481464828@ne
s-west.newscene.com>
<49e86127.1518222484@news-west.newscene.com>
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> Xref: news.arizona.edu alt.atheism:2124998 aus.politics:739973
aus.religion:24842 uk.politics.misc:981453
>
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:59:05 GMT, "HD" wrote:
>
> >
> >"Kate " wrote in message
> >news:49e86127.1518222484@news-west.newscene.com...
> >> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 06:11:53 GMT, "HD" wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>"Kate " wrote in message
> >>>news:49e3d191.1481464828@news-west.newscene.com...
> >>>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:15:01 GMT, "HD" wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Kate " wrote in message
> >>>>>news:49e19720.1466503546@news-west.newscene.com...
> >>>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 15:08:46 GMT, "HD" wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Kate " wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:49ddfb99.1426688859@news-west.newscene.com...
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:34:35 GMT, "HD" wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>"Kate " wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>news:49d95b6b.1385682562@news-west.newscene.com...
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 01:12:29 GMT, "HD" wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>"Kate " wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>news:49d0bf9b.1345794281@news-west.newscene.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 13:48:05 GMT, "HD"
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>"Kate " wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>news:49cea36c.1338579328@news-west.newscene.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 03:43:07 GMT, "HD"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Kate " wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:49ccf6c7.1294382062@news-west.newscene.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:33:34 GMT, "HD"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Kate " wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:49c8b164.1276619859@news-west.newscene.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 06:22:16 GMT, "HD"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Peter Webb" wrote
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:4983e8a8$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheists have done lots of bad things, but not because
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atheists,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but because they are bad people.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whereas Muslim terrorists do bad things because they are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheism is not comparable to having religious beliefs;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nutters
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite often kill people for religious reasons; atheists
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheism
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a religion, and it does not dictate how people
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they should hate.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Let me see if I got that right.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Atheists do bad thinngs because they are bad people.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Christians do bad things, not because they are bad people,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>but
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>because
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>they
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>are religious.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Is that an Irish joke?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The point is, atheism doesn't justify doing bad things,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religion
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good people do bad things, like not let gay people marry,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religion.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"At that time many will call evil good and they will call
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>evil."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Precisely - if you rely on religion to tell you what's good,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eventually your progeny will disown you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because what you did wasn't truly moral - religion isn't about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> defining morality, it's about power and tribalism.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>If not religion, then who defines morality?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Where does morality come from?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Our social genes.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>I'm not bible bashing but maybe the following is interestinng for
> >>>>>>>>>>>you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>The Bible says the following:
> >>>>>>>>>>>When Gentiles who do not have the law, by nature do the things in
> >>>>>>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>>>>law,
> >>>>>>>>>>>these, although not having the law are a law to themselves
> >>>>>>>>>>>Who show the work of the law written in their hearths, their
> >>>>>>>>>>>conscience
> >>>>>>>>>>>also
> >>>>>>>>>>>bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or
> >>>>>>>>>>>else
> >>>>>>>>>>>excusing them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>In other words, social genes is God's law written in the hearth of
> >>>>>>>>>>>man.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>The Catholic church, rather than being authoritarian and
> >>>>>>>>>>>controlling
> >>>>>>>>>>>has
> >>>>>>>>>>>this to say:
> >>>>>>>>>>>From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
> >>>>>>>>>>>"20. Conscience, in Catholic teaching, is God's law written on the
> >>>>>>>>>>>human
> >>>>>>>>>>>heart (CCC 1777-1802). It is "the most secret core and sanctuary
> >>>>>>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>>>>a
> >>>>>>>>>>>man"
> >>>>>>>>>>>where "he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths." To
> >>>>>>>>>>>obey
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