112014@news.newsgroupdirect.com> 4996fd29   
   XPost: alt.law-enforcement, alt.prisons, alt.revisionism   
   XPost: alt.atheism, alt.conspiracy, alt.politics.immigration   
   XPost: alt.true-crime, talk.politics.guns, misc.survivalism   
   XPost: soc.culture.usa, alt.survival   
   From: fmhlaw@comcast.net   
      
   On 11/22/2014 12:03 PM, CLz6dCxDCFBpU01ZZONL wrote:   
   > In article <54705afc$0$17998$882e7ee2@usenet-news.net>,   
   >   Just Wondering  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 11/21/2014 10:46 PM, CLz6dCxDCFBpU01ZZONL wrote:   
   >>> In article <546feb0b$0$17939$882e7ee2@usenet-news.net>,   
   >>>    Just Wondering  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 11/21/2014 12:07 PM, CLz6dCxDCFBpU01ZZONL wrote:   
   >>>>>     Just Wondering  wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 11/20/2014 1:07 PM, CLz6dCxDCFBpU01ZZONL wrote:   
   >>>>>>> Just Wondering  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 11/19/2014 12:52 PM, CLz6dCxDCFBpU01ZZONL wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> at one time Native Americans owned *ALL* of North America, but you   
   >>>>>>>>> took   
   >>>>>>>>> almost all of their land, gave them a few beads and gave none of it   
   >>>>>>>>> back.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> There never was a single group of Native Americans.  There were   
   >>>>>>>> dozens,   
   >>>>>>>> of different groups, some of whom had comparatively well developed   
   >>>>>>>> civilizations and governments, others who were unorganized savages.   
   >>>>>>>> Some groups did not even have the concept of property ownership.   
   >>>>>>>> Certainly Native Americans never "owned" all of North America, at   
   >>>>>>>> least   
   >>>>>>>> not in the sense that we understand land ownership.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> you could say that about all of Europe, Africa, etc, but it doesn't   
   >>>>>>> change the fact that in the Americas, the land didn't belong to the   
   >>>>>>> Europeans   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>> So what?  You could just as well say say that there's no land anywhere   
   >>>>>> that once didn't belong to someone else.  So since your original claim   
   >>>>>> above is a lie, what's your point?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> all land at didn't belong to someone else.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>> Tell us who owns a parcel of land today, who owned that same land five   
   >>>> thousand years ago. Put your answer here:   
   >>>   
   >>> In the Americas, the land was "owned" by the Native Americans,   
   >>>   
   >> That's crap.  Name the person who, in 2990 BCE, owned the 600 acres at   
   >> the center of what is now present-day Death Valley, California.  Who   
   >> owned Mount McKinley five thousand years ago?  Or  Ellesmere Island? Or   
   >> the present location of Venice, Louisiana?  Or any other identifiable   
   >> parcel in the entire Western Hemisphere?   
   >   
   > I'll wait until you tell me the name of the person 2990 BCE who was your   
   > grandfather 250 generations ago   
   >   
   We're not discussing my ancestry.  I asked you who owns land today, and   
   who owned the same land 5,000 years ago.  You replied the land was owned   
   by Native Americans.  I challenge your claim, and say put up or shut up.   
     You have chosen to shut up. I accept your surrender.   
      
   >>>>   
   >>>> I also point out you ignored my question, so I ask again:   
   >>>> What's your point?   
   >>>   
   >>> That the Americas didn't belong to the Europeans, it's pretty straight   
   >>> forward   
   >>>   
   >> So what?  Much of the Americas didn't belong to ANYONE.  Much of what   
   >> did belong to someone, that someone took by force from its previous   
   >> possessors.   
   >   
   > The first Native Americans did not take anything by force   
   >   
   You can't possibly know that.  For all you know, five, ten, twenty or   
   thirty thousand year ago there were two, ten or a hundred groups of   
   "first Native Americans" who fought tooth and nail over everything.   
   >   
   >> Much of what did belong to someone when Europeans came,   
   >> that someone voluntarily transferred ownership to Europeans, and then   
   >> that land DID belong to Europeans.   
   >   
   > If by voluntarily, you mean after being forced from their lands, chased   
   > and killed at every opportunity, you might be correct. but if you are   
   > correct you can provide the title change documents   
   >   
   The Puritans who arrived on the Mayflower obtained land by peaceful   
   exchange.  That was not an isolated incident.   
   And if you want to rely on "title change documents" or "title documents"   
   or "documents" as proof of ownership, then none of the Native Americans   
   owned ANY land in the Western Hemisphere, because none of them had   
   documents to prove their ownership.  That would make all of the land   
   free for the taking, first come, first serve.  I don't claim that's what   
   happened, but by your invoking documents as proof of ownership, that's   
   the consequence of your position.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)