XPost: alt.startrek, alt.tv.star-trek, alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise   
   XPost: rec.arts.startrek.current   
   From: jax@knickersjaxtrawstudios.com   
      
   EvilBill wrote:   
   > Jaxtraw wrote:   
   >> EvilBill wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> I think he's against people being greedy; I mean, just look at   
   >>> Micro$haft. Rich beyond the dreams of avarice, so can easily afford   
   >>> to sell their products at prices that *everyone* can afford,   
   >>   
   >> Why should they? They're a business. If people are stupid enough to   
   >> pay exhorbitant prices, they have every right to charge them.   
   >>   
   >   
   > Well I won't pay those sorts of prices. I just resort to a search   
   > engine and a BitTorrent client.    
      
   )   
      
   >>> yet they   
   >>> still insist on slapping prices on them that only the super-rich can   
   >>> pay.   
   >>   
   >> Uhm... so all the zillions of people using Windows are "super-rich"   
   >> are they?   
   >>   
   >   
   > Windows is the *cheapest* piece of software that M$ puts out. People   
   > might be able to afford £100 for XP Home, but far fewer can afford the   
   > £700 or so for M$ Office...   
      
   Then hey, they can't afford it. There are cheaper office suites out there,   
   much cheaper ones. Strangely, people don't seem to buy them in huge   
   quantities. The market that can afford Office seems to be large. If   
   corporate clients can afford $700 per license, MS are free to sell it at   
   that price. It's the supply and demand thing. You charge what the market   
   will pay. If they won't pay what you're charging, you have to lower your   
   price. If the price you need to charge is lower than the cost of production,   
   you go bankrupt.   
      
   Office is a pretty good product. I tried a couple of alternatives including   
   Star Office but frankly I just preferred Office, or particularly Word. That   
   wasn't "I'll try this other thing for 5 minutes", I struggled on with Star   
   Office for ages but in the end had to admit I wanted to use Word. So I had   
   no choice but to open my wallet.   
      
   Then close it again and get a copy from someone at work :oD   
      
   > Besides, most people use Windows because they bought a PC that came   
   > with it preinstalled.   
      
   True, but again we see that people are apparently willing to pay the Window   
   Tax.   
      
   > And for every legit copy of Windows M$ actually   
   > *sells*, I suspect a dozen people download a pirate copy. (XP Home   
   > might be relatively cheap, but XP Pro is quite a bit more expensive,   
   > as is Windows 2000 still.)   
      
   Not really relevant. In fact, piracy is probably supporting MS's position in   
   the marketplace. If there were no pirate copies about, people would have to   
   use alternatives such as Macs (also very expensive) or Linux, or there'd be   
   an opening for another commercial OS at a lower price from a competitor.   
   Millions would defect to other Operating Systems. Software companies would   
   have to produce ports of their software for these other OSs. Windows would   
   lose market share and *gasp* have to lower their prices to become   
   competitive.   
      
   As such, everyone using illegal copies of Windows are, bizarrely, helping   
   the Windows hegemony. Strange thought.   
      
   >>> Corporate fatcats   
   >>   
   >> "I hate people who are richer than me because of my irrational belief   
   >> that somehow making them poor would make me richer".   
   >>   
   >   
   > So you think it's acceptable that these people award themselves   
   > multi-million-pound bonuses while at the same time, for example, the   
   > company pension scheme goes down the tubes leaving all the employees   
   > with no pension?   
      
   That's a straw man. Clearly that'd be unfair and illegal come to that. But   
   MS and other big companies aren't doing that. I'm not aware of MS robbing   
   their pension fund. We have Gordon Brown to do that, remember, anyway. If   
   they're legit companies, it's nobody's business what they pay their   
   executives.   
      
   >>> commanding extreme salaries for sitting on   
   >>> their fat arses while the dogsbodies get paid less than minimum   
   >>> wage.   
   >>   
   >> I doubt they're paying less than minimum wage, since that'd be kind   
   >> of illegal.   
   >   
   > Tell that to the people in Indian call centres getting paid £2 per   
   > day. ;)   
      
   Unfair comparison- wages in different nations aren't comparable.   
      
   >>   
   >> Get a Mac. Build a PC and install Linux. Or do what I do, and toddle   
   >> happily along on a venerable copy of Win98 and "legacy" software.   
   >> I'll be fucked if I'm paying about a thousand quid for this Vista   
   >> thing or whatever it's called. I don't need it, so I won't buy it. If   
   >> they drop the price to around 50 quid, I might try it. That's how the   
   >> market works.   
   >>   
   >   
   > I don't need Vista (no-one does, until the DirectX 10 games start   
   > coming out)   
      
   ...so you're prepared to pay for games but won't pay for the OS to run   
   them???   
      
   > but I do need XP since most of my software is   
   > Windows-only, I had 98 and found it to be terminally unstable,   
      
   I've always liked it. It's very stable on the machines I've used it on.   
   Reports of instabilities of OSs seem very dependent on the people and   
   machines involved. I've got XP on my backup machine. Can't stand it,   
   especially all the hand-holding. That fucking networking wizard that keeps   
   asking me if I'm in the family room (whatever that is?) and turning the   
   goddamned firewall on "for my own protection". It does loads of things I   
   don't need and nothing that I need that 98SE doesn't, except support very   
   big hard disks, which is why it's on there.   
      
   > and   
   > Win2000 doesn't like my hardware.   
      
   :(   
      
   >> It really isn't Bill Gates' fault that there's one born every minute.   
   >>   
   >   
   > No, but if I was running a business I'd like to think I'd charge   
   > *fair* prices. So that *everyone* could afford my products, including   
   > the people on, say, Income Support.   
      
   That's not how pricing in a market economy works, as I'm sure you're aware   
   :)   
      
   There's no such thing as a "fair" price, there's just the price set by   
   supply and demand. What is the natural price of an OS? I dunno. I'd like to   
   pay about 30 quid. Well, I'd like to pay nothing really, or maybe a tenner.   
   Or...   
      
   All I can say personally is Windows Vista is way too expensive for me. I   
   won't buy it at that price. If nobody else did, the price would have to come   
   down. So it's all the people who buy it's fault really not Bill's. He's just   
   laughing all the way to the bank.   
      
   Anyway, there's a good argument that Microsoft have already jumped the shark   
   and are running on vapours. They're now the kind of big corporation that   
   gets knocked off its perch by some bunch of kids in sneakers with a Better   
   Idea.   
      
   The Evil Corporations to watch right now are the Web Controllers- Google,   
   Jimbo's Big Bag Of Trivia, etc. And yet everyone thinks they're wonderful.   
      
   Strange world, really.   
      
      
   Ian   
      
   --   
   www.jaxtrawstudios.com   
   science fiction comics with shagging in   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)