XPost: alt.comp.software.thunderbird, news.software.readers   
   From: ahk@chinet.com   
      
   J. P. Gilliver  wrote:   
   >On 2026/1/30 23:29:13, Arlen wrote:   
      
   >>>. . .   
      
   >>I think that address might be -moderated@moderators.isc.org   
   >>based on these tests with distinctly different results in that regard.   
      
   >When setting up Turnpike, some decades ago, I got the impression that   
   >the default for moderated 'groups _was_ some common address; the above   
   >rings a faint bell.   
      
   In olden days, every News server had to maintain a list of submission   
   addresses in a moderators file. It was recognized that these addresses   
   would quickly go out of date. Using a generic form of address meant that   
   the moderators file could be maintained centrally, and it became yet   
   another function ISC performed on behalf of the Usenet community. Why   
   ISC? Specific people worked there.   
      
   This is done for moderated newsgroups in the Big 8 and alt. It's   
   performed on behalf of some "language" and regional hierarchies, but not   
   all. Moderated newsgroups are not unheard of in larger regional hierarchies   
   like uk, but they are quite rare in smaller ones. I think uk maintains   
   its own central list but I don't recall specifically.   
      
   It is possible to maintain a moderators file at a News site without   
   relying upon these centrally maintained files but it would be a huge   
   pain in the ass to learn all of the submission addresses as they change.   
      
   >If the _client_ does it - which would seem a more efficient way, after   
   >all why involve the newsserver if that can be avoided - then the list of   
   >newsgroups must contain a flag for the ones that are moderated, so that   
   >the client knows to treat posts to it differently. (Posts _in_ it - i.   
   >e. from other posters, that have already been passed by the moderator[s]   
   >- can be treated the same as those in any other 'group.)   
      
   You are speaking of treating a submission address like the submission   
   address of a moderated mailing list. It can certainly be done by an   
   email client.   
      
   It's impossible for the newsreader to submit it because the newsreader   
   isn't an email client. If it's done with a client that's combined of a   
   newsreader and email client, like Thunderbird or alpine, then it's not   
   using the newsreader to submit the proto article.   
      
   >As such, moderated 'groups must have some flag in the news client.   
      
   In the For your newsgroups file line of a newgroup message sent by the   
   hierarchy administrator or proponent of a newsgroup, the flag is the   
   appended " (Moderated)". In the active file, the flag is "m". These are   
   files that may be downloaded periodically from the News site by the   
   newsreader. If a newsreader uses them, it's for a sanity check when   
   subscribing to a newsgroup or crossposting a root article or followup.   
   If the newsreader would require rudimentary SMTP functions to send the   
   proto article as email. But now, the use of an invalid email address on   
   From is nonstandard in email, so what are all the whiners paranoid about   
   privacy gonna do? There is no concept of a "proto message" in email.   
      
   Also, the Message-ID string on the References header could be lost as   
   it's used for a different purpose in email. Note that the use of   
   References in lieu of In-Reply-To that makes threading possible was a   
   misunderstanding of the differences between the two headers in the early   
   days of Usenet when Mail message format was adapted for News.   
      
   This is a disadvantage to not submitting the proto article to the News   
   site to gate it to email. There are plenty of others, such as the   
   ignorant sending every Mail message as HTML with an alternative part,   
   something that's entirely unwanted in plain text Usenet.   
      
   I don't agree with your notion of submitting directly to the submission   
   address in the newsreader. I see drawbacks but no advantages.   
      
   Also note that the shared format was because interserver communication   
   with long distance telephone charges via modems was hideously expensive   
   and it allowed shared messages to be sent as a single News article, then   
   a local mailing list allowed it to be delivered to mailboxes.   
      
   >I have a feeling there was such an indication in Turnpike. I've just   
   >looked at the properties of this 'group in Thunderbird, and I can't   
   >_see_ a "moderated" indication that isn't ticked, but maybe it only   
   >appears at all on moderated ones?   
      
   >ISTR there was also some mechanism for entering a different moderator   
   >from the default (@moderators.isc.org) one for 'groups that had a   
   >moderator whose address wasn't part of that organisation. (That -   
   >isc.org - is probably what I was [mis?]remembering as a central   
   >organisation - not really a clearinghouse.)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)