On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:56:06 -0600, Desertphile
wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:40:13 -0400, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:05:21 -0600, Desertphile
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:48:44 -0700 (PDT), studio
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sep 25, 8:50 am, "M. Balmer" wrote:
>> >> > 4 HP in a 350. In a 4 cyl it would be considerably less as I originally
>> >> > stated.
>> >>
>> >> It was 3hp gain in a 2 cylinder 92hp Harley engine.
>> >>
>> >> Desertphile wrote:
>> >> > As for the people who claim they can "feel the difference" with
>> >> > Iridium spark plugs in their cars..... well, they're just stupid.
>> >>
>> >> I don't consider myself stupid, but I guess all those winning
>> >> motorcycle racers and mechanics that use and swear by them are also
>> >> stupid in your book.
>> >
>> >Yes, stupid or ignorant or paid to say what they do. Think of all
>> >the many more losers with the same spark plugs.
>> >
>> >Sheeeish.
>> >
>> >> As for me, when, if, and until I see a drawback, I'm sold on them for
>> >> my application, end of story.
>
>
>> Actually, to be totally frank, just because the OEM uses a particular
>> part does not NECESSARILY mean it is the best. There is a
>> price/advantage ratio that works best for manufacturing. There ARE
>> parts out there that are better, at least in some ways, than the OEM
>> parts, for certain applications. They generally cost more than the OEM
>> spec part, or would require payment of licencing fees in order to
>> implement.
>>
>> HOWEVER - Generally speeking, the OEM spec part is the best bet for
>> general use. When I'm working on a Ford I'll generally use Motorcraft
>> plugs. On a Toyota NipponDenso or NGK (both OEM options) and on a GM,
>> AC Delco.
>>
>> Whatever the factory supplies - that way the customer can't come back
>> on you if your "flavour of the day" has a problem.
>>
>> On my own vehicles I sometimes (heck, over the years OFTEN) try
>> different combinations - particularly when other specs have been
>> modified. My '63 Valiant 170 (206RWHP) would chew up and spit out
>> Champion rn14y plugs in 200 miles. The coldest Champion I could buy
>> (n6?) lasted about 500 - so I put in the Nippondenso W24EP plugs. The
>> coldest NipponDensos Toyota used back in the '70s. Those plugs would
>> go 6 -10 thousand miles in the Valiant with no problems at all. The
>> engine routinely saw 6000 to 6500 RPM (and over 120 MPH)
>>
>> Put them in a stock 170 slant six and they'd be fouled up in no time
>> flat. In town, trying to idle sedately in traffic, they loaded up even
>> on the warmed over engine.
>> So even on that engine, for city driving they were not ideal - but the
>> car spent more time on the highway, or locked in low gear around town
>> - and I spent less time and money changing plugs.
>>
>> I ALMOST broke down and installed capacittive discharge ignition so I
>> could install marine surface gap "stones" - no heat range - stone
>> cold.
>>
>> If the iridiums do the job for you, excellent. They ARE a better plug
>> than a standard or copper core Champion. A fine wire electrode plug
>> will fire more consistently with lower voltage than a standard
>> thick-electrode plug. They are more foul resistant too - we used
>> paladium fine-wires in 2 stroke engines back in the sixties because
>> they would start consistently in the cold (snowmobiles) even with the
>> oil fouling issues 16:1 pre-mix brought to the table.
>>
>> They are still used in 2 stroke ultralight aircraft engines,
>> particularly when the engine is installed inverted (plug down) because
>> they will still fire when oil soaked.
>>
>> And no, they were not GENERALLY standard OEM equipment in either
>> application. But they worked. Well enough to make what I remember was
>> their EIGHTEEN DOLLAR price tag in 1969 (compared to something like a
>> buck and a quarter for the stock plug, and seventy five cents for a
>> champion automotive plug) worth while.
>
>Nothing you wrote can be falted; however, the issue is the claim
>that the Iridium spark plugs increase horsepower, which they do
>not: there is no evidence showing such an increase. One of the
>astonishing things about the automotive after-market parts world
>is that people will spend a hell of a lot of money for crap that
>is no better than what the car came with, yet the victims of the
>fraud will defend the product and defend the crooks to defrauded
>them because they have an emotional as well as financial
>investment in the product or service.
Under some conditions, some aftermarket components DO increase power -
and some do under any conditions.
IF the OEM plug does not always light the fuel effectively, or if it
causes/allows minor detonation, and the aftermarket plug DOES fire the
fuel effectively every time, and or prevents low grade detonation,
THEN the engine WOULD produce more power and better fuel efficiency
with the aftermarket plug.
Fine wire plugs HAVE been proven to fire more consistently, with lower
ionizing voltage, than large electrode plugs.
This has been known for a long time.
Noble metal fine wire plugs have also been proven to run with a lower
tip temperature and retain less heat than a large electrode plug.
This has also been known for a long time.
However, getting a noble metal fine wire plug to stand up at a
reasonable cost has not been easily accomplished.
The fact that the iridiums are only about double the cost of standard
plugs and they are lasting as long as or longer than standard platinum
plugs means they are finally getting there.
I would not presume that putting Iridium plugs in absolutely any
vehicle would provide horsepower and economy gains - but I would be
the last to say a 2 to 5% improvement in either or both was
impossible, or even unlikely.
Now there are a lot of aftermarket "gee whiz" plugs etc out there that
can NOT POSSIBLY provide an increase in either power or economy over a
properly gapped and unworn OEM plug. or other properly installed and
adjusted OEM part.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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