XPost: alt.autos.toyota.camry, alt.autos.toyota, alt.autos.lexus   
   XPost: rec.autos.tech   
   From: mygarbagecan@verizon.net   
      
   "Mike Hunter"  wrote in message   
   news:4b13ea12$0$7186$ce5e7886@news-radius.ptd.net...   
   > WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I popped   
   > the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to FULL throttle."   
   > right?   
   >   
   >   
   -   
   Nope.  A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home.  There   
   was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with a pair of   
   fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball.  A quite thrilling   
   ride trying to get the engine stopped.   
      
   > "Wayne"  wrote in message   
   > news:heuua5$9m6$1@news.eternal-september.org...   
   >>   
   >> "Mike Hunter"  wrote in message   
   >> news:4b11dc50$0$14195$ce5e7886@news-radius.ptd.net...   
   >>> The question should be it seems, what new vehicle on the market today   
   >>> does NOT use FBW technology?   
   >>>   
   >>> "in2dadark"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:28032db1-874e-48df-8f34-dfc51f6997cb@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...   
   >>> On Nov 28, 10:58 am, Vic Smith    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>  wrote:   
   >>>> >john wrote:   
   >>>> >> This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from   
   >>>> >> the   
   >>>> >> beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was   
   >>>> >> unexpected engine surges between 38-42 MPH on light throttle input:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> >> "Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would   
   >>>> >> cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least   
   >>>> >> three   
   >>>> >> technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with   
   >>>> >> the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> >I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the   
   >>>> >computer   
   >>>> >operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of   
   >>>> >conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be   
   >>>> >deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight   
   >>>> >control   
   >>>> >software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder   
   >>>> >which   
   >>>> >way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not   
   >>>> >redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial   
   >>>> >stuff quad redundant. Expensive.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> >I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven.   
   >>>> What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc?   
   >>>> (I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.)   
   >>>> The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as   
   >>>> somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the   
   >>>> throttle.   
   >>>> But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways.   
   >>>> I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled   
   >>>> or bypassed.   
   >>>> To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant.   
   >>>> KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned.   
   >>>> A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing.   
   >>>> The foot should be in total control.   
   >>>> Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some   
   >>>> linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto   
   >>>> gas tank design if people end up dead.   
   >>>> Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives.   
   >>>> Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong.   
   >>>> But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car.   
   >>>> If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a   
   >>>> key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> --Vic- Hide quoted text -   
   >>>>   
   >>>> - Show quoted text -   
   >>>   
   >>> Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards   
   >>> in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW..   
   >>>   
   >> The mechanical linkages also have problems.  On one car, I had a rubber   
   >> plug come loose in the engine compartment, and wedge into the accelerator   
   >> linkage.  On another car, the cable travel stopped before the accelerator   
   >> bottomed out.  When pushing down hard, I popped the end off the cable,   
   >> and the cable was spring loaded to full throttle.  YMMV.   
   >>   
   >   
   >   
      
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