XPost: alt.autos.toyota.camry, alt.autos.toyota, alt.autos.lexus   
   XPost: rec.autos.tech   
   From: crwlrjeff@yahoo.com   
      
   The problem is that Toyota (and others) are using what is termed, fly by   
   wire.   
      
   In fly by wire, the gas pedal is not mechanically connected to the throttle   
   body. The gas pedal has a servo that tells the computer what the angle is,   
   and the computer then sets the throttle body with a stepper motor to match   
   the angle of the gas pedal.   
      
   Surely you can see the pitfalls of such a system.   
      
   Fly by wire is used in lots of applications and when it works properly, it   
   is lighter and more precise than the mechanical linkage(s) it replaces. The   
   military has employed fly by wire for the flight control systems on   
   airplanes for quite some time now. I'm not aware of any failures in aircraft   
   that have resulted from the fly by wire systems they use but I'm not saying   
   there are no failures, just that I don't recall any.   
      
   In any case, there is a very strong suspicion that the implementation that   
   Toyota is using has problems.   
      
   I read a report this past weekend (maybe it was last Friday) that the car in   
   San Diego that crashed while the throttle was stuck on full had been   
   reported to have done the same thing a week or two before the car was given   
   to the people that died in it. (The car was a loaner that the dealership   
   gave to people that had their car in for service.) A previous customer had   
   returned the car and told the dealership that the car took off on its own,   
   but the dealership found no fault with it. The customer is reported to have   
   driven the car into the dealership, so whatever happened to it was transient   
   in nature, which is a trait of fly by wire failures -- the system will   
   forget what the proper settings are supposed to be, and have to be reset. A   
   driver that had the capacity to shut the car off or shift out of D could   
   perform the reset that caused the system to work again, and unless somebody   
   was able to read a history file (if there was one) then the circumstances   
   that caused the error might never be found -- until the next person flies   
   the car off of an embankment at 120mph.   
      
      
      
      
      
      
   "dr_jeff"  wrote in message   
   news:9IydnR0VWZFbaYbWnZ2dnUVZ_uli4p2d@giganews.com...   
   > john wrote:   
   >> Yeah, I think all the recent problems are likely computer related.   
   >> These ECUs just aren't up to their tasks.   
   >   
   > Really. The ECUs definitely have problems, but please show us a better way   
   > that doesn't involve electronics. Carbs worked well, but wasted fuel.   
   > Without electronics, are air would be dirtier, we would use more fuel.   
   >   
   > Please suggest a better way.   
   >   
   > Jeff   
   >   
   >> The problem, according to NHTSA, may be linked to onboard computers.   
   >> "The agency indicates   
   >> the problem could be linked to the onboard computer, or electronic   
   >> control module. "   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20091205/AUTO01/912050334/   
   148/auto01/Feds-probe-stalling-reports-in-2-Toyota-models   
      
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