XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy   
   From: le@top.put.com   
      
   In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein  wrote:   
   > Another "out of bounds" revision to catch an error   
   > (I had omitted Lord Saye and Sele's 101st birthday   
   > months ago...and he is now the oldest living peer   
   > with the death of Viscount Falmouth(1919-2022) on   
   > March 7th).   
   > The only other remaining hereditary peers older than   
   > the Queen (listed in order of birth)   
   To interpolate the oldest holders of life peerages   
   among this number:   
   Baroness Sharples,   
   Baroness Knight of Collingree.   
   > are the Earl of Elgin & Kincardine,   
   > Baron Monk Bretton(lone surviving peer of George V's reign),   
   > Baron Walsingham,   
   Baron Plumb,   
   Baron Christopher,   
   > Baron Wakehurst,the Marquess of   
   > Ailesbury,and Baron Gainford (born the day before   
   > Her Majesty).   
   >   
   > With the next revision,the reference date will move   
   > back into 1881 (the year Disraeli died).   
   >   
   >                                 -=-=-=-=-=-=-   
   > Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire   
   > as they were on January 3rd 1882.   
   >   
   > Queen Victoria,over 4 months from 63,was on the throne;   
   > she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee   
   > would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was only 8   
   > weeks past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 4 months past 73),   
   > the future George V was 5 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is   
   > under 4 months from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all   
   > his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet   
   > Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder   
   > brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.   
   > The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was   
   > Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law   
   > the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with   
   > over seven years to live.   
   >   
   > The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol,   
   > Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,   
   > St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet   
   > exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,   
   > or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of   
   > Liverpool was under 2 years old.   
   >   
   > Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,   
   > Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,   
   > and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)   
   > had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).   
   > Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish   
   > Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour   
   > Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over   
   > a decade.   
   >   
   > William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been   
   > Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government   
   > had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884   
   > (which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would   
   > be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish   
   > the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into   
   > effect with the following election.   
   > Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years.   
   > Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,   
   > had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles   
   > James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).   
   >   
   > Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been   
   > the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished   
   > by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,   
   > sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal   
   > Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old   
   > Bailey would not open for decades.   
   >   
   > Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a   
   > decade from adding the New Territories.   
   >   
   > Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII   
   > had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in   
   > an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.   
   > Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,   
   > some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions,   
   > and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone   
   > for the final time.   
   >   
   > The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born   
   > 1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and   
   > Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);   
   > Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805   
   > nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to   
   > "The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of   
   > Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,   
   > and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had   
   > taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS   
   > Chesapeake in 1813.   
   > The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,   
   > while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan   
   > (born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the   
   > Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804   
   > had yet to receive promotion to that rank.   
   >   
   > The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810,   
   > great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)   
   > the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather   
   > of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),   
   > the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the   
   > present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and   
   > a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,   
   > succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great-   
   > grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,   
   > second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke),   
   > and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).   
   > The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the   
   > Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.   
   > The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be   
   > succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the   
   > great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).   
   > The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great-   
   > great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the   
   > 3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the   
   > great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his   
   > predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,   
   > a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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