XPost: soc.history.war.misc, soc.culture.scottish, alt.religion.   
   hristian.presbyterian   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.baptist   
   From: cequka@iprimus.com.au   
      
   "allan connochie"  wrote in message   
   news:4550324c@news.greennet.net...   
   >   
   > "Raktizer Omheit"  wrote in message   
   > news:454ec049_1@news.iprimus.com.au...   
   >> The Scottish aristocracy was so arrogant and snobbish that they refused   
   >> to   
   >> grant to their middling class or middle class peasantry the right to use   
   >> longbows on a large scale when fighting in major battles against English   
   >> longbow archers. This led to disastrous and humiliating defeats for the   
   >> Scottish armies against English armies at the Battles of Dupplin Moor in   
   >> 1332, Halidon Hill in 1333, St. Neville's Cross in 1346, Flodden Field in   
   >> 1513, Solway Moss in 1542, and Pinkie Cleugh in 1547. The longbow had a   
   > much   
   >> better rate of fire, range, accuracy, and penetrating power than the   
   >> crossbow.   
   >   
   > The longbow was a factor (and certainly vital at the 14thC battles) but   
   > aren't you overstating it a bit. It didn't let the English win at Stirling   
   > Bridge, Bannockburn or Roslin. Basically the Scots won some outstanding   
   > set   
   > pieces but their overall success was more often down to avoiding large   
   > scale   
   > battles and relying on guerilla warfare etc. In general they did have the   
   > resources to match England pitch battle after pitch battle unless England   
   > was distracted someplace else. At the likes of Solway Moss the bad   
   > leadership from the Scots was a bit of a factor too!   
   >   
   >Allan, it is true that the English had some nasty defeats from time to time   
   >against the Scots, and the French-speaking Anglo-Norman aristocracy of   
   >England was more interested in richer pickings in France and the Benelux   
   >countries of what is now Belgium, Luxembourg, and The Netherlands, than in   
   >impoverished Scotland, which was especially poor in the Highlands. In   
   >France the English were assisted by the refusal of the French aristocracy   
   >to let their richer peasants use the longbow, as well as by the pro-English   
   >sentiments among SOME of the Norman, Walloon, Breton, Gascon, Occitan,   
   >Provencal, and Burgundian French. The pro-Royalist French became involved   
   >in some nasty civil wars with their Burgundian cousins from 1407-1413, and   
   >again from 1419-1435. Then again, the Scots were notorious for the feudal   
   >rivalry betwen their various clans and princes. Not until 1707 were the   
   >English able to permanently incorporate Scotland into its union with Wales   
   >and Ireland, after the Scots more or less voluntarily dissolved their   
   >parliament in Edinburgh in return for electing Scottish M.P.'s to the House   
   >of Commons in London, in proportion to Scotland's population. In 1997, the   
   >Scots decided to have a "state" parliament alongside their House of Commons   
   >representation after having a referendum on this issue, although many Scots   
   >do not want full independence because they believe with some justification   
   >that it would be ruinous to their economy.   
   >   
   >   
   >> The Scottish were again defeated heavily on four occasions during the   
   >> English Civil Wars of the 1640's and 1650's, that is, at the Battles of   
   >> Preston in 1648, Dunbar in 1650, Inverkeithing in 1651, and Worcester in   
   >> 1651.   
   >   
   > Nothing to do with the longbow mind. Had the mad-mullahs not interfered   
   > then   
   > it is likely that the English invading army would have been defeated at   
   > Preston anyway and hightailed it back south.   
   >   
   > Allan   
   >   
   > Alan, I once remember reading that the Scottish were in a very   
   > advantageous position at Dunbar in 1650 when facing against Cromwell's   
   > army, until the Scottish Presbyterian ministers, or would-be theocrats,   
   > persuaded them to redeploy down hill because it allegedly was the will of   
   > God according to them. In addition, Cromwell made an unexpected attack at   
   > dawn during a heavy fog which caught the Scots unawares, and of course   
   > there were many Scots who were reluctant to fight against the English   
   > Congregationalists and Baptists when it might very well result in a   
   > victory for the English Anglican Royalists, which for them was an even   
   > worse prospect.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)