XPost: soc.history.war.misc, soc.culture.scottish, alt.religion.   
   hristian.presbyterian   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.baptist   
   From: cequka@iprimus.com.au   
      
   "Nebulous"  wrote in message   
   news:w-KdnXTGd474pc3YnZ2dnUVZ8tadnZ2d@pipex.net...   
   >   
   > "Raktizer Omheit"  wrote in message   
   > news:454fc810_1@news.iprimus.com.au...   
   >>   
   >> "Don Phillipson"  wrote in message   
   >> news:eio3oo$ral$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...   
   >>> "Raktizer Omheit"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:454ec049_1@news.iprimus.com.au...   
   >>>   
   >>>> The Scottish aristocracy was so arrogant and snobbish that they refused   
   >>>> to   
   >>>> grant to their middling class or middle class peasantry the right to   
   >>>> use   
   >>>> longbows on a large scale when fighting in major battles against   
   >>>> English   
   >>>> longbow archers. This led to disastrous and humiliating defeats for the   
   >>>> Scottish armies against English armies at the Battles of Dupplin Moor   
   >>>> in   
   >>>> 1332, Halidon Hill in 1333, St. Neville's Cross in 1346, Flodden Field   
   >>>> in   
   >>>> 1513, Solway Moss in 1542, and Pinkie Cleugh in 1547.   
   >>>   
   >>> Why should anyone think bowmen on either side were "middling   
   >>> class or middle class peasantry" in 14th-16th century wars?   
   >>>   
   >> Don, many historians whom I have read have described the English longbow   
   >> archer as belonging usually to the yeoman class, which in its day formed   
   >> a well-to-do class of farmers who were neither rich nor poor.   
   >>>   
   >>> A principal difference between Scotland and England before   
   >>> recent times was the weakness of the Scottish class system,   
   >>> mainly the equality of everyone (except the 5 per cent wealthiest)   
   >>> in schools, churches, law courts etc.   
   >>>   
   >> Don, if that's the case, then why did the English longbowmen, with the   
   >> help of knights and pikemen, defeat the Scots so many times in battle?   
   >> Why did the Scots fail to use the longbow to the extent that the English   
   >> did?   
   >   
   > The longbow was a relatively expensive weapon which took a long time to   
   > learn. You could teach the basic pike moves in half an hour.   
   >   
   > Neb   
   >   
   True Nebulous, but in that case the French, with a larger population and a   
   larger tax revenue base, should have adopted the longbow on a larger scale.   
   And the Welsh, who were more impoverished than the Scots, used the longbow   
   extensively, as the English were themselves to do so later on.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)