XPost: soc.history.war.misc, soc.culture.scottish, alt.religion.   
   hristian.presbyterian   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.baptist   
   From: cequka@iprimus.com.au   
      
   "allan connochie"  wrote in message   
   news:45522ead@news.greennet.net...   
   >   
   > "Nebulous"  wrote in message   
   > news:w-KdnXTGd474pc3YnZ2dnUVZ8tadnZ2d@pipex.net...   
   >>   
   >> "Raktizer Omheit"  wrote in message   
   >> news:454fc810_1@news.iprimus.com.au...   
   >> >   
   >> > Don, if that's the case, then why did the English longbowmen, with the   
   >> > help of knights and pikemen, defeat the Scots so many times in battle?   
   > Why   
   >> > did the Scots fail to use the longbow to the extent that the English   
   > did?   
   >>   
   >> The longbow was a relatively expensive weapon which took a long time to   
   >> learn. You could teach the basic pike moves in half an hour.   
   >   
   > Plus the other poster is starting from an incorrect position in the first   
   > place. He seems to be suggesting that the long bow was the deciding factor   
   > in the English victories mentioned. That simply isn't true as far as many   
   > of   
   > them go. I presume the first time Scots would have seen the longbow would   
   > have been during the Wars of Independence. Of course the said weapon   
   > didn't   
   > help the English at Stirling Bridge where the Scottish pike/spear was   
   > immensely succesful. The Scots lost at Falkirk but again the Scottish pike   
   > proved immensely effective at Bannockburn, a battle which the Scots simply   
   > shouldn't have been able to win. So the three battles of several decades   
   > later saw the longbow wreak havoc but that is about it. Why would the   
   > Scots   
   > necessarily have changed to this weapon by then when England had so   
   > decidedly lost the earlier round of conflict? Later rather than follow   
   > English practise which did prove decisive in the mid-14thC battles, the   
   > Scots tried to emulate the famous Swiss tactics in the 16thC. The 16thC   
   > defeats mentioned did not really have the longbow as a deciding factor.   
   > Light artillery, poor leadership and even naval bombardments were factors.   
   > By the Civil War period I imagine that the bow was a thing of the past and   
   > would play no, or next to no part anway.   
   >   
   > cheers   
   >   
   > Allan   
   >   
   Alan, Scotland's last major victory against England at the Battle of   
   Bannockburn in 1314 was followed at LATER dates by a string of English   
   victories were the English longbowmen, along with the Welsh mercenary   
   longbowmen, were a decisive factor against the Scots at the Battles of   
   Dupplin Moor in 1332, Halidon Hill in 1333, St. Neville's Cross in 1346,   
   Flodden Field in 1513, were useful at Solway Moss in 1542, and at also at   
   Pinkie Cleugh in 1547. Of course, Cromwell and his Puritan armies' victories   
   at the Battles of Preston in 1648, Dunbar in 1650, Inverkeithing in 1651,   
   and Worcester in 1651, were NOT due to the longbow, which by this stage had   
   been replaced by the musket and cannon.   
      
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