XPost: soc.culture.scottish, soc.culture.irish, soc.culture.welsh   
   XPost: ie.general   
   From: allan@EASYNET.CO.UK   
      
   "Ciaran"  wrote in message   
   news:psh6h.64504$rP1.36665@news-server.bigpond.net.au...   
   > Ciaran wrote:   
   > > The Highlander wrote:   
   > >> On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 12:11:59 GMT, Ciaran  wrote:   
   > >>   
   > >>> Ciaran wrote:   
   > >>   
   > >>> 2. Place names classed as Pictish start with Pit- (no "P" in Gaelic)   
   > >>> from arcahic Brythonic for a piece of land   
   > >>   
   > >> Can I believe my eyes? Of course there is a "P" in Gaelic and there   
   > >> always has been!  (I assume you are confusing the term Q-Celtic   
   > >> (actually C - the Goidelic group)  and P-Celtic, the Brythonic group.   
   > >>   
   > >>   
   > >>   
   > >>   
   > >> The Highlander   
   > >>   
   > >> Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns   
   > >> an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil.   
   > >> The views expressed in this post are  not necessarily those of The   
   > >> Highlander.   
   > >   
   > > What I meant was that there is no word starting with "P" for a piece of   
   > > land in Gaelic to my knowledge, e.g. tuathanas meaning "farm" has no "P"   
   > > at all in it. Also the following words:   
   > >   
   > > Proto-Celtic     Gaulish     Welsh     Breton     Irish     Scottish   
   > > Gaelic     Manx English gloss   
   > > *kwennos     pennos     pen     penn     ceann     ceann     kione   
   > > "head"   
   > > *kwetwar-     petuarios     pedwar     pevar     ceathair   
   > > ceithir     kiare     "four"   
   > > *kwenkwe     pinpetos     pump     pemp     cúig     còig     queig   
   > > "five"   
   > > *kweis     pis     pwy     piv     cé (older cia)     cò/cia   
   > > quoi     "who"   
   >   
   > BTW feel free to suggest some Gaelic words for a piece of land that do   
   > start with "P" - if you know of some that would be cool because the   
   > endings of the Pictish placenames are surely Gaelic. I am not yet fluent   
   >   Gaelic myself as you most certainly are. See the extract below:   
   >   
   >   
   > "The Picts left their mark in many place names, particularly in the east   
   > of the country. Names beginning with Pit (Pitlochry, Pitsligo,   
   > Pittenweem) referred to Pictish farms."   
   >   
   > Gaelic placenames:   
   >   
   > Lochry   
   > Sligo   
      
   Most of these types of names with Pit as a prefix have a Gaelic suffix. That   
   is because the names aren't all that old and date to the Gaelic period   
   proper or perhaps the period of bilingualism. If you want to read a detailed   
   study of the subject there is no better place to start than "Scottish   
   Place-Names...........by W.F.H Nicolaisen, Head of the Place Name Survey in   
   the School of Scottish Studies at Edinburgh University from 1956-1969" which   
   was 20 years in the making. In his chapter "P-Celtic names: Pictish and   
   Cumbric" he sums things up "although there are features which appear to   
   seperate Pictish form the other insular P-Celtic languages and perhaps even   
   associate it was Gaulish, there is other evidence which demonstrates with   
   some weight that Pictish was not as different from Cumbric as these other   
   place-name elements might suggest"   
      
   The whole point is that the discussion centres on how alike Pictish P-Celtic   
   was to Cumbric P-Celtic. The idea that it was Q-Celtic was debunked long   
   ago. You are simply picking up little snippets of evidence which have   
   already been taken into account of.   
      
   So you pronounce on whether names are Pictish or not without actually   
   reading the main regognised authoratative volumes on the subject. You quote   
   Jackson as if he would back up what you say when Jackson himself was   
   absolutely positive that Pictish was P-Celtic, more than that, he was so   
   positive that he even claimed it was closer to Gaulish than Cumbric. You use   
   for your evidence facts which have already been taken account of by the   
   historians and scholars in coming to their decision - yet you introduce them   
   as if it is some revelation! You look for Norse words in the inscriptions   
   (eg Edde) which amounts to nothing more scientific than looking for faces in   
   cloud formations. In short you seem to want Pictish to be Gaelic, or Norse,   
   anything but P-Celtic, so you'll skip about web-sites looking for proof and   
   so far you've come up with nothing new! And of course as it is you who is   
   trying to rewrite accepted opinion so you need surely to come up with   
   something mpre solid.   
      
      
   Allan   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)