XPost: soc.history.war.misc, soc.culture.scottish, alt.religion.   
   hristian.presbyterian   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.baptist   
   From: shipman@btinternet.com   
      
   "Raktizer Omheit"  wrote in message   
   news:4553c0af_1@news.iprimus.com.au...   
   >   
   > "walker"  wrote in message   
   > news:BcmdnQEsj7_o0M7YnZ2dnUVZ8tKdnZ2d@bt.com...   
   >> The English Puritans were Episcopalian. Puritan means one who wants to   
   >> purify. The Puritans wanted to purify the Church of England of its   
   >> bishops, which could only be done inside the C of E. The Congregationists   
   >> and Baptist definitely were NOT Puritans. Please learn you English   
   >> Ecclesiastic history before spouting nonesense.   
   > Walker, in that case, there are also far more historians out there who   
   > would also spout so-called "nonsens" according to your criteria. Glad to   
   > see that you do not share this with them!   
      
   Walker is right. It goes back to the reign of Mary Tudor. Those Protestants   
   who left England were originally Lutherans,   
   but they got a cool reception in Germany and eventually settled in Geneva   
   and became Calvinists. Meanwhile the Protestants who remained   
   became Armenians, which is to say followers of Jacob Hermanson who made five   
   points against Calvinism. When Mary Tudor died the Armenian factiion   
   quickly took over the Church of England thus leaving the returning   
   Calvinists out in the cold. These Calvinists began to wear peculiar clothing   
   and called   
   for the purification of the Church of England by the removal of its bishops,   
   hence their name, Puritans. As for your reference to historians, a million   
   people   
   could claim that the moon is made out of blue cheese, but they would still   
   be wrong. The historians to whom you refer are obviously half baked and not   
   real   
    professional historians with a reputation to maintain. Next you will be   
   claiming that the Puritans came to England in space ships. No, you are way   
   off beam on the   
   subject of Puritans, and if you are wrong on this point then what guarantee   
   is there that you are right about Scottish military defeats?   
      
   >> "Raktizer Omheit"  wrote in message   
   >> news:454ec049_1@news.iprimus.com.au...   
   >>> The Scottish aristocracy was so arrogant and snobbish that they refused   
   >>> to grant to their middling class or middle class peasantry the right to   
   >>> use longbows on a large scale when fighting in major battles against   
   >>> English longbow archers. This led to disastrous and humiliating defeats   
   >>> for the Scottish armies against English armies at the Battles of Dupplin   
   >>> Moor in 1332, Halidon Hill in 1333, St. Neville's Cross in 1346, Flodden   
   >>> Field in 1513, Solway Moss in 1542, and Pinkie Cleugh in 1547. The   
   >>> longbow had a much better rate of fire, range, accuracy, and penetrating   
   >>> power than the crossbow. Although the Welsh also used the longbow   
   >>> extensively, the Anglo-Norman Welsh Marcher or frontier counts and   
   >>> barons learned from the Welsh, employing Welsh mercenaries and English   
   >>> yeoman footsoldiers and light horsemen trained in the use of the   
   >>> longbow, as well as in the use of the pike, billhook, halberd, hatchet,   
   >>> and sword. The French aristocrats, like their Scottish counterparts,   
   >>> also refused to arm their peasantry with the longbow, fearing that they   
   >>> could turn this powerful weapon against them, as the English yeoman   
   >>> archers were to do on two occasions against their land lords, during the   
   >>> Wat Tyler Revolt of 1381, and in Jack Cade's rebellion of 1450, although   
   >>> both revolts were crushed by the English knights with the help of loyal   
   >>> yeomen archers. On their own, and without the support of knights and   
   >>> pikemen as a covering and counterattacking force, English yeomen archers   
   >>> could not win battles, even if they could exact a heavy toll on a   
   >>> frontal attacking cavalry, and on a frontal infantry assault.   
   >>>   
   >>> The Scottish were again defeated heavily on four occasions during the   
   >>> English Civil Wars of the 1640's and 1650's, that is, at the Battles of   
   >>> Preston in 1648, Dunbar in 1650, Inverkeithing in 1651, and Worcester in   
   >>> 1651. Oliver Cromwell's disciplined, well trained, well armed, well   
   >>> paid, and highly motivated Puritan Army known as the Roundheads and the   
   >>> Ironsides were more than a match for the English Anglican Royalists and   
   >>> their Scottish Presbyterian allies. The English Puritans were mostly   
   >>> Congregationalists and Baptists. The Scottish Presbyterians had   
   >>> originally been allied with the English Puritans when the English Civil   
   >>> War began in 1641, but by 1648 they turned traitor and allied with the   
   >>> English Royalists or Cavaliers when the Puritans refused to impose   
   >>> Presbyterianism on England as the official state religion, as it was in   
   >>> Scotland, and by Cromwell's desire to grant religious toleration for the   
   >>> Scottish Congregationalists and Baptists. Cromwell himself, despite his   
   >>> religious radicalism, was in many ways conservative and realistic in   
   >>> socio-economic policies, as witnessed by his refusal to give in to the   
   >>> Communist demands of Gerard Winstanley's "Diggers" or "True Levellers,"   
   >>> and also by his refusal to allow the "Social Democratic" platform of   
   >>> John Lilburne's "Levellers" to succeed. With the dismal economic record   
   >>> of the late Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact as an example, Cromwell did   
   >>> England a favour by refusing to allow Winstanley and Lilburne to   
   >>> succeed, much as Napoleon Bonaparte was to later do with the French   
   >>> Enrages led by Nicholas Noel-Gracchus Babeuf, although Martin Luther was   
   >>> rather excessive and cruel in his urging the German knightly landlords   
   >>> in crushing the German Peasant Revolt of 1525. Cromwell did not support   
   >>> the dissolution of the English House of Lords, and he also maintained a   
   >>> high property qualification for the eligibility to vote in House of   
   >>> Commons elections, some 200 pounds per annum worth of property to be   
   >>> owned by an adult male, a high sum of money for the 1650's. Not until   
   >>> 1911 were the English House of Commons members paid by tax-payer funded   
   >>> salaries, meaning that most of its members until then were obliged to be   
   >>> men of wealthy status in order to sit as unpaid legislators. Cromwell   
   >>> was probably in the main sincere when he said that the reason why he   
   >>> wished to allow the Jews to legally settle in England was in order to   
   >>> encourage their conversion to Christianity, and he quoted St. Paul's   
      
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