XPost: soc.culture.welsh, soc.culture.cornish, soc.culture.irish
XPost: soc.culture.scottish
From: micheil@shaw.ca
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:44:46 GMT, "Chess One"
wrote:
>
>"Robert Peffers." wrote in message
>news:tqudnSV9DK4ioF_bnZ2dnUVZ8qaqnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "allan connochie" wrote in message
>> news:OVpwi.35954$sI3.29312@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>>
>>> "Chess One" wrote in message
>>> news:32pwi.355$7f.202@trndny09...
>>>>
>>>> "Robert Peffers." wrote in message
>>>>> Laughably you ignore the simple fact that most Scots still speak either
>>>>> Gaelic or a form of Lowland Scots, or even both, in addition to
>>>>> Standard English.
>>>>
>>>> They do not Sir, and you lecture someone whose name is Highland Scot.
Well if it were spelled MacAonghais that would be true. But as you
call yourself "Innes", you are in fact using a Lowland version of the
name, presumably intended to provide an English phonetic version for
the benefit of non-Gaels.
>>>>
>>>> Scottish Gaelic has of habitual speakers now just 30,000 persons.
A total of 58,652 people speak Gaelic in Scotland today according to
the last Government Census. Lots more living outside Scotland also
speak Gaelic, especially in major centres like London, England and of
course overseas in Nova Scotia, Canada where the language is still
spoken on a daily basis, and almost anywhere else where Gaels recently
settled.
There are also many people, paricularly in the US who have learned
Gaelic through evening classes in centres like Seattle and in Boston
where there is a Gaelic-speaking population, mostly Nova Scotians who
moved to the US to find work; etc. There are even native Canadians (PC
for Indians) and Americans who speak some Gaelic because of ancestors
intermarrying with Highland emigrants. There are two in the building I
live in, here in Western Canada.
There has been a steady decline in the number of Gaelic speakers in
Scotland in the last hundred years. There were 230,806 Gaelic speakers
in Scotland in 1901 according to the Census. There are a number of
reasons for this decline, including economic ones, but it is hoped
that with more support this decline will be halted.
According to the last Census, although there was a fall in the number
of Gaelic speakers from 65,978 (1991) to 58,652 (2001), the rate of
decline was not as steep as it was between 1981 and 1991 when the
number of Gaelic speakers fell from 79,307 to 65,978. In addition to
the people in Scotland who are able to speak Gaelic and were recorded
in the last Census, there is another group of people who can read,
write or understand Gaelic – there are 33,744 of them according to the
last Census.
Gaelic is still strongest in the Western Isles and West Highlands.
However, there are a significant number of Gaelic speakers in some of
Scotland’s cities such as Glasgow, Edinburgh and Inverness and almost
half of the Gaelic speakers in Scotland now stay out with the
traditional heartland areas (the local authority areas: Na h-Eileanan
Siar, Highland and Argyll and Bute).
There are a number of people among the ranks of Gaelic speakers today
who have learnt the language, and Gaelic Medium Education and the
advances in that sector give cause for hope with regard to the future
of Gaelic. There are 3,086 pupils in Gaelic Medium Education at
present (nurseries run by Local Authorities, primary schools, and
secondary schools) and 3,641 take Gaelic as a subject at present in
secondary schools (learners and fluent speakers). Also according to
the last Census the number of Gaelic speakers aged between five and
nine years old rose. There are also nearly 2,000 children registered
in the pre-school groups of Comhairle nan Sgoiltean Ŕraich (the Gaelic
pre-school organisation).
Duncan MacNiven, Registrar General for Scotland, said: "This report,
based on detailed analysis of the 2001 Census, shows that Gaelic is
thriving as well as declining. The number of Gaelic speakers fell by
7,300 during the 1990s. However, the number of Gaelic readers
increased by 3,200 and the number of people able to write in Gaelic
rose by 3,100.
"The Census suggests that Gaelic is declining in its traditional
heartlands, particularly in the Western Isles, but growing in many
other parts of Scotland – and among young people. Around 430 more
young people, aged five to nine, could speak Gaelic in 2001 than in
1991. It is moving from being an oral language to being a language
spoken, read and written." (From the Gaelic Report on the 2001
Census).
Irish
>>>> Gaelic some 22,000 speakers, Welsh 326,000 habitual speakers, and for
>>>> Breton 250,000 habitual speakers. [census 1991] More understand it than
>>>> speak it, particularly in Wales where the numner is 1.1 million people.
>>>> But of Scots Gaelic only 55,000 now understand it.
>>>>
>>>> Almost all Scots do not understand the Gaelic, and are no longer
>>>> Curadh-uasisle Inssi Gall. You understand this phrase?
Not really. I presume you meant Curaidh-uaisle na h-Innse Gall which
would mean Hero nobility of the Isles of Foreigners, but the
Foreigners were the Vikings, not the Gaels. Indeed. Gaelic was not
spoken in the Hebrides until the 1400s or thereabouts when the
Hebridean people abandoned Norse for Gaelic.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think you'd better reread what Bob said. He never claimed that most
>>> Scots speak Gaelic.
>>>
>>> Allan
>>>
>> It is fairly obvious he is not really listening.
>
>I had just wondered what you meant by your list, Bob. Obviously lowland
>scots would have to speak something, and I wondered what your emphasis was?
>Certainly 'most highlanders don't speak a form of lowland scots [dialect]'
>and most lowland scots don't speak Gaellic. Even 'standard' English is a
>[invented] dialect, courtesy the BBC.
>
>I doubt lowland scots to be any more difficult to ken than Cornish accented
>English.
I think that's rather a startling claim. There are quite a few Scots
posters here who don't really understand Border or Aberdonian Scots.
>
>> More like a case of, "I've read the book and this is what it says".
>
>If we need to fall out - so be it - but I think that's the second
>speculation you have offered. Do you want to pick a more acuitous topic to
>discuss, or are you content with strawmen?
>
>> I suppose I could quote some text from Daemonology by Jaimie Saxt and a
>> poem by Elizabeth I to demonstrate that Scots did indeed speak a
>> different, but related language when Jaimie Saxt gaed doon til London.
>> Daes the gadgie jalouse Jaimie Saxt an Ane wad, aiblins, spak wir ain leid
>> tae the Iglis court? Cud wi doot he maun eyven hae a Scottish tune tae his
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