XPost: soc.culture.welsh, soc.culture.cornish, soc.culture.irish
XPost: soc.culture.scottish
From: micheil@shaw.ca
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:10:06 GMT, "Chess One"
wrote:
>
>"Robert Peffers." wrote in message
>news:xeadneVSWPcNFFrbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@bt.com...
><...?>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>> Don't talk rot.
>> Perhaps the works of such as Geoffrey Chaucer, 1343-1400, began the
>> standardisation of English but,
>
>But maybe the works of Gower, same period did the same? He wrote as much, as
>was as well read.
>
>> without doubt, the work of William Caxton, 1422 - 1492, saw the mass
>> spread of printed books as never before and by the time of William
>> Shakespeare, 1564 -1616, and such as John Donne, Ben Jonson, and Sir
>> Francis Bacon English was soon well standardised.
>
>The first published dictionary of English by Robert Caudray was 1604. A very
>small publication, octavo, 120pp, with 2,500 words in it. Very uncertainly
>did Shakespeare see it. What you mean by 'mass' would be of people who could
>read and afford to buy books? How many quanititatively do you suppose that
>was? Certainly, the Florio edition of Montaigne is said to have been read by
>Shakespeare - though this is disputed, dispite it being the only book with
>his name inscribed in it.
>
>I do not follow any issue resulting from what I wrote to how you reply.
>
>James spoke a dialect version of English, not some other language.
No he didn't. He spoke a variation of Old Northumbrian from which
*nglish is also derived.
>Why
>romance the issue? It is not that he was unread or less than... except
>Elizabeth read extensively in Latin and Greek, and was very reasonably
>fluent in French.... but I do not understand what basis you have in
>contention in writing me.
>
>Phil Innes
>
>> Queen Elizabeth I, 1533-1603, wrote this -
>>
>> On Monsieur's Departure.
>> by Elizabeth I, Queen of England.
>>
>> I grieve and dare not show my discontent,
>> I love and yet am forced to seem to hate,
>> I do, yet dare not say I ever meant,
>> I seem stark mute but inwardly do prate.
>> I am and not, I freeze and yet am burned,
>> Since from myself another self I turned.
>> My care is like my shadow in the sun,
>> Follows me flying, flies when I pursue it,
>> Stands and lies by me, doth what I have done.
>> His too familiar care doth make me rue it.
>> No means I find to rid him from my breast,
>> Till by the end of things it be supprest.
>> Some gentler passion slide into my mind,
>> For I am soft and made of melting snow;
>> Or be more cruel, love, and so be kind.
>> Let me or float or sink, be high or low.
>> Or let me live with some more sweet content,
>> Or die and so forget what love ere meant.
>>
>>
>> James Charles Stuart was born on June 19, 1566 at Edinburg Castle in
>> Scotland.
>> He penned Daemoology, (Originally printed Edinburgh 1597), and this is the
>> opening part -
>>
>> " I AM surely verie glad to haue mette with you this daye, for I am of
>> opinion, that ye can better resolue me of some thing, wherof I stand in
>> great doubt, nor anie other whom-with I could haue mette.
>> EPI. In what I can, that ye like to speir at me, I will willinglie and
>> freelie tell
>> my opinion, and if I proue it not sufficiently, I am heartely content that
>> a better reason carie it away then.
>> PHI. What thinke yee of these strange newes, which now onelie furnishes
>> purpose to al men at their meeting: I meane of these Witches?
>> EPI. Surelie they are wonderfull: And I think so cleare and plaine
>> confessions in that purpose, haue neuer fallen out in anie age or cuntrey.
>> PHI. No question if they be true, but thereof the Doctours doubtes.
>> EPI. What part of it doubt ye of?
>> PHI. Even of all, for ought I can yet perceaue: and namelie, that there is
>> such a thing as Witchcraft or Witches, and I would pray you to resolue me
>> thereof if ye may: for I haue reasoned with sundrie in that matter, and
>> yet could never be satisfied therein.
>> EPI. I shall with good will doe the best I can: But I thinke it the
>> difficiller, since ye denie the thing it selfe in generall: for as it is
>> said in the logick schools, Contra negantem principia non est disputandum.
>> Alwaies for that part, that witchcraft, and Witches haue bene, and are,
>> the former part is clearelie proved b the Scriptures, and the last by
>> dailie experience and confessions.
>> PHI. I know Yee will alleadge me Saules Pythonisse: but that as appeares
>> will not make much for you.".
>>
>> Oviously Elizabeth's English of around that time could easily have been
>> written today but the Scots language of James was far from being the same
>> as the English of Elizabeth. There is, though, an obvious relationship.
>> --
>>
>> Robert Peffers,
>> Kelty,
>> Fife,
>> Scotland, (UK).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
The Highlander
Tilgibh smucaid air do làmhan,
togaibh a' bhratach dhubh agus
toisichibh a' geàrradh na sgòrnanan!
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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