XPost: alt.religion.christian.adventist, alt.religion.christian.boston-church,   
   alt.religion.christian.baptist   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   From: EliyahuSilver@Hotmail.com   
      
   Bs'd   
      
   ..Who and what is the messiah? Let us check according to the Holy   
   Hebrew scriptures what the messiah is supposed to do. .....   
   ..   
   Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among   
   the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me   
   that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of   
   old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time   
   that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his   
   brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand   
   and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of   
   the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto   
   the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the   
   Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our   
   palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight   
   principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the   
   sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he   
   deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when   
   he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in   
   the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon   
   the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.   
   And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of   
   many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion   
   among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down,   
   and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be   
   lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut   
   off."   
      
   Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies:   
   "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand   
   shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall   
   be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be   
   misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to   
   be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a   
   ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but   
   not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.   
      
   .........Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion;   
   shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he   
   is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon   
   a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from   
   Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut   
   off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall   
   be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the   
   earth."   
      
   They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in   
   those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace,   
   the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not   
   cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and   
   to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any   
   dominion at all.   
   In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the   
   "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it   
   written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come   
   again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus'   
   failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the   
   above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least   
   2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption.   
   Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and   
   coming back thousands of years later.   
      
   .........Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that   
   I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and   
   prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his   
   days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is   
   his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."   
      
   ..........Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I   
   cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall   
   execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall   
   Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name   
   wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."   
      
   When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the   
   messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem   
   shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two   
   thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the   
   redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'.   
   However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years   
   after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the   
   Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way   
   that the above prophecy was fulfilled.   
   .   
   .......... Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the   
   stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the   
   spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and   
   understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of   
   knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick   
   understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after   
   the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:   
   But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with   
   equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with   
   the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay   
   the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and   
   faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with   
   the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf   
   and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall   
   lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall   
   lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the   
   sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child   
   shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor   
   destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the   
   knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day   
   there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the   
   people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be   
   glorious."   
      
   Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And   
   he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the   
   breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get   
   the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)