XPost: alt.religion.christian.adventist, alt.religion.christian.boston-church,   
   alt.religion.christian.baptist   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   From: EliyahuSilver@Hotmail.com   
      
   Bs'd   
      
      
   The NT brings OT prophecies of whom it claims that they are messianic   
   and fulfilled by JC.   
      
   Let's take a closer look at those prophecies.   
      
   The first one is to be found in Matthew 1:22; "All this took place to   
   fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:  "Behold, a virgin   
   shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel"   
   (which means, God with us)."   
      
   This OT prophecy quoted by the NT can be found in Isaiah 7:14;   
   "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young   
   woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name   
   Imman'u-el."   
      
   We see here that in Isaiah 7:14 is spoken about a young woman, and not   
   about a virgin.   
   Many translations write in Isaiah 7:14 "virgin", and not "young   
   woman".  For instance the King James says there "virgin".  But the   
   Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 that the king James translation translates   
   as virgin is almah. In Hebrew almah means girl, young woman with her   
   state of virginity unspecified. Therefore the word virgin in Isaiah   
   7:14 is a wrong translation. The Hebrew word for virgin is betulah,   
   that word is used for instance when the Holy Torah speaks about   
   Rebecca in Genesis 24:16: "…a virgin, neither had any man known her"   
   .....This fact is recognized by many Christian Bible translators, for   
   instance "The New English Bible", "The Good News Bible", and "The   
   Revised Standard Version" have translated this verse in the right way,   
   and not as virgin. .   
   -----The King James translation recognizes this fact too. When we look   
   for instance at Exodus 2:8, and at Proverbs 30:19, there the Hebrew   
   text also uses the word almah, and there the King James translates it   
   with maid, which is a girl or young woman, whose state of virginity is   
   unspecified. And in psalm 68:25 the King James translates almah as   
   damsel, whose meaning is similar as maid.   
   So the New Testament is here misquoting the Old Testament.   
   .......Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a prophecy that the   
   messiah will be born unto a virgin.... In fact, nowhere in the Old   
   Testament do virgins give birth. This concept is only to be found in   
   pagan mythology.   
   And when we look at this verse in the right context, when we look at   
   the whole chapter of Isaiah 7, then we see that this verse is   
   definitely not refering to the coming of the messiah. This chapter   
   talks about G.d giving a sign to Achaz, that he will have tranquility   
   in his days. We see from this two things: the whole chapter speaks   
   about the days of Achaz, about 700 years before Jesus; verse 14:   
   "Therefore the LORD himself shall give you (King Achaz and his house)   
   a sign." G.d would not give him a sign by having a baby born 700 years   
   after his death. The second thing that we see is that the baby that is   
   talked about is only a sign, not a redeemer. G.d is the redeemer, as   
   it is written in verse 17: "The LORD shall bring upon thee…"   
      
   Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:   
   "And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed   
   to Egypt, and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to   
   fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, Out of Egypt have I   
   called my son."  Matthew 2:14-15   
      
   Here a verse from Hosea 11:1 which says: "out of Egypt I called my   
   son." is applied to the messiah.   
   But let's take a look WHO is the son of God in the OT:  "And you shall   
   say to Pharaoh, `Thus says the LORD, Israel is my first-born son, and   
   I say to you, "Let my son go that he may serve me"; if you refuse to   
   let him go, behold, I will slay your first-born son.'" Ex 4:22   
      
   That's clear language.  And also in Hosea 11:1 it speaks CLEARLY about   
   Israel, which is redeemed by God from the slavery in Egypt: "When   
   Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son."   
      
   Please read Hosea chapter 10 and 11, and then you will see that it   
   speaks all the time about Israel, en not about the messiah.   
   What the NT does here is ripping a verse out context and present it to   
   us as a messianic prophecy.   
   Which it obviously isn't.   
      
      
    Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:   
      
   Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, was   
   in a furious rage, and he sent and killed all the male children in   
   Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under,   
   according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise men.   
   Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah:  "A voice   
   was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for   
   her children; she refused to be consoled, because they were no more."   
   Matthew 2:16-18   
      
   Here the NT claims that Jeremiah 31:15 speaks about the slaughter of   
   children, taking place in the days of the birth of the messiah.   
   Now read here what is really happening in that text: Jeremiah   
   31:10-21;   
   ""Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the   
   coastlands afar off; say, `He who scattered Israel will gather him,   
   and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.'  For the LORD has   
   ransomed Jacob, and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him.   
   They shall come and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall   
   be radiant over the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine,   
   and the oil, and over the young of the flock and the herd; their life   
   shall be like a watered garden, and they shall languish no more.   
    Then shall the maidens rejoice in the dance, and the young men and   
   the old shall be merry. I will turn their mourning into joy, I will   
   comfort them, and give them gladness for sorrow.  I will feast the   
   soul of the priests with abundance, and my people shall be satisfied   
   with my goodness, says the LORD."  Thus says the LORD: "A voice is   
   heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for   
   her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because   
   they are not."   Thus says the LORD: "Keep your voice from weeping,   
   and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says the   
   LORD, and they shall come back from the land of the enemy.   There is   
   hope for your future, says the LORD, and your children shall come back   
   to their own country.   I have heard E'phraim bemoaning, `Thou hast   
   chastened me, and I was chastened, like an untrained calf; bring me   
   back that I may be restored, for thou art the LORD my God.  For after   
   I had turned away I repented; and after I was instructed, I smote upon   
   my thigh; I was ashamed, and I was confounded, because I bore the   
   disgrace of my youth.'  Is E'phraim my dear son? Is he my darling   
   child? For as often as I speak against him, I do remember him still.   
   Therefore my heart yearns for him; I will surely have mercy on him,   
   says the LORD."   
      
   As everyone can see; this speaks about Israel which was exiled and of   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)