XPost: alt.religion.christian.adventist, alt.religion.christian.boston-church,   
   alt.religion.christian.baptist   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   From: @yahoo.com   
      
   On 25 Feb 2004 08:25:05 -0800, EliyahuSilver@Hotmail.com (Eliyahu)   
   wrote:   
      
   >Bs'd   
   >   
   >..Who and what is the messiah? Let us check according to the Holy   
   >Hebrew scriptures what the messiah is supposed to do. .....   
      
   Liar, liar, pants on fire!  Something is wrong with you.  I've told   
   you half a dozen times now. You are wrong, and you are lying, and you   
   are in a Christian group.   
      
   There are HUNDREDS of prophesies our Lord fulfilled, such as His place   
   of birth, Bethlehem, WHEN He was born, that He was betrayed for 30   
   pieces of silver, etc., etc., etc.   
      
   Go away with this garbage!   
      
   jw   
      
   >..   
   >Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among   
   >the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me   
   >that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of   
   >old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time   
   >that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his   
   >brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand   
   >and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of   
   >the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto   
   >the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the   
   >Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our   
   >palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight   
   >principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the   
   >sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he   
   >deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when   
   >he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in   
   >the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon   
   >the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.   
   >And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of   
   >many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion   
   >among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down,   
   >and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be   
   >lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut   
   >off."   
   >   
   >Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies:   
   >"And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand   
   >shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall   
   >be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be   
   >misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to   
   >be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a   
   >ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but   
   >not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.   
   >   
   >.........Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion;   
   >shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he   
   >is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon   
   >a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from   
   >Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut   
   >off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall   
   >be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the   
   >earth."   
   >   
   >They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in   
   >those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace,   
   >the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not   
   >cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and   
   >to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any   
   >dominion at all.   
   >In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the   
   >"second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it   
   >written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come   
   >again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus'   
   >failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the   
   >above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least   
   >2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption.   
   >Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and   
   >coming back thousands of years later.   
   >   
   >.........Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that   
   >I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and   
   >prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his   
   >days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is   
   >his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."   
   >   
   >..........Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I   
   >cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall   
   >execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall   
   >Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name   
   >wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."   
   >   
   >When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the   
   >messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem   
   >shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two   
   >thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the   
   >redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'.   
   >However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years   
   >after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the   
   >Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way   
   >that the above prophecy was fulfilled.   
   >.   
   >.......... Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the   
   >stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the   
   >spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and   
   >understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of   
   >knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick   
   >understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after   
   >the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:   
   >But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with   
   >equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with   
   >the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay   
   >the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and   
   >faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with   
   >the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf   
   >and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall   
   >lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall   
   >lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the   
      
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