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   XPost: alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   From: @yahoo.com   
      
   x-no-archive:yes   
   On 6 Mar 2004 10:24:40 -0800, EliyahuSilver@Hotmail.com (Eliyahu)   
   wrote:   
      
   >Bs'd   
   >   
   Please stop re-posting this carp to 100 groups.   
      
      
   jw   
      
      
   >   
   >The NT brings OT prophecies of whom it claims that they are messianic   
   >and fulfilled by JC.   
   >   
   >Let's take a closer look at those prophecies.   
   >   
   >The first one is to be found in Matthew 1:22; "All this took place to   
   >fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:  "Behold, a virgin   
   >shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel"   
   >(which means, God with us)."   
   >   
   >This OT prophecy quoted by the NT can be found in Isaiah 7:14;   
   >"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young   
   >woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name   
   >Imman'u-el."   
   >   
   >We see here that in Isaiah 7:14 is spoken about a young woman, and not   
   >about a virgin.   
   >Many translations write in Isaiah 7:14 "virgin", and not "young   
   >woman".  For instance the King James says there "virgin".  But the   
   >Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 that the king James translation translates   
   >as virgin is almah. In Hebrew almah means girl, young woman with her   
   >state of virginity unspecified. Therefore the word virgin in Isaiah   
   >7:14 is a wrong translation. The Hebrew word for virgin is betulah,   
   >that word is used for instance when the Holy Torah speaks about   
   >Rebecca in Genesis 24:16: "…a virgin, neither had any man known her"   
   >.....This fact is recognized by many Christian Bible translators, for   
   >instance "The New English Bible", "The Good News Bible", and "The   
   >Revised Standard Version" have translated this verse in the right way,   
   >and not as virgin. .   
   >-----The King James translation recognizes this fact too. When we look   
   >for instance at Exodus 2:8, and at Proverbs 30:19, there the Hebrew   
   >text also uses the word almah, and there the King James translates it   
   >with maid, which is a girl or young woman, whose state of virginity is   
   >unspecified. And in psalm 68:25 the King James translates almah as   
   >damsel, whose meaning is similar as maid.   
   >So the New Testament is here misquoting the Old Testament.   
   >.......Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a prophecy that the   
   >messiah will be born unto a virgin.... In fact, nowhere in the Old   
   >Testament do virgins give birth. This concept is only to be found in   
   >pagan mythology.   
   >And when we look at this verse in the right context, when we look at   
   >the whole chapter of Isaiah 7, then we see that this verse is   
   >definitely not refering to the coming of the messiah. This chapter   
   >talks about G.d giving a sign to Achaz, that he will have tranquility   
   >in his days. We see from this two things: the whole chapter speaks   
   >about the days of Achaz, about 700 years before Jesus; verse 14:   
   >"Therefore the LORD himself shall give you (King Achaz and his house)   
   >a sign." G.d would not give him a sign by having a baby born 700 years   
   >after his death. The second thing that we see is that the baby that is   
   >talked about is only a sign, not a redeemer. G.d is the redeemer, as   
   >it is written in verse 17: "The LORD shall bring upon thee…"   
   >   
   >Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:   
   >"And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed   
   >to Egypt, and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to   
   >fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, Out of Egypt have I   
   >called my son."  Matthew 2:14-15   
   >   
   >Here a verse from Hosea 11:1 which says: "out of Egypt I called my   
   >son." is applied to the messiah.   
   >But let's take a look WHO is the son of God in the OT:  "And you shall   
   >say to Pharaoh, `Thus says the LORD, Israel is my first-born son, and   
   >I say to you, "Let my son go that he may serve me"; if you refuse to   
   >let him go, behold, I will slay your first-born son.'" Ex 4:22   
   >   
   >That's clear language.  And also in Hosea 11:1 it speaks CLEARLY about   
   >Israel, which is redeemed by God from the slavery in Egypt: "When   
   >Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son."   
   >   
   >Please read Hosea chapter 10 and 11, and then you will see that it   
   >speaks all the time about Israel, en not about the messiah.   
   >What the NT does here is ripping a verse out context and present it to   
   >us as a messianic prophecy.   
   >Which it obviously isn't.   
   >   
   >   
   > Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:   
   >   
   >Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, was   
   >in a furious rage, and he sent and killed all the male children in   
   >Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under,   
   >according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise men.   
   >Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah:  "A voice   
   >was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for   
   >her children; she refused to be consoled, because they were no more."   
   >Matthew 2:16-18   
   >   
   >Here the NT claims that Jeremiah 31:15 speaks about the slaughter of   
   >children, taking place in the days of the birth of the messiah.   
   >Now read here what is really happening in that text: Jeremiah   
   >31:10-21;   
   >""Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the   
   >coastlands afar off; say, `He who scattered Israel will gather him,   
   >and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.'  For the LORD has   
   >ransomed Jacob, and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him.   
   >They shall come and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall   
   >be radiant over the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine,   
   >and the oil, and over the young of the flock and the herd; their life   
   >shall be like a watered garden, and they shall languish no more.   
   > Then shall the maidens rejoice in the dance, and the young men and   
   >the old shall be merry. I will turn their mourning into joy, I will   
   >comfort them, and give them gladness for sorrow.  I will feast the   
   >soul of the priests with abundance, and my people shall be satisfied   
   >with my goodness, says the LORD."  Thus says the LORD: "A voice is   
   >heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for   
   >her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because   
   >they are not."   Thus says the LORD: "Keep your voice from weeping,   
   >and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says the   
   >LORD, and they shall come back from the land of the enemy.   There is   
   >hope for your future, says the LORD, and your children shall come back   
   >to their own country.   I have heard E'phraim bemoaning, `Thou hast   
   >chastened me, and I was chastened, like an untrained calf; bring me   
   >back that I may be restored, for thou art the LORD my God.  For after   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)