XPost: alt.philosophy.zen, alt.society.liberalism, alt.society.kindness   
   XPost: talk.politics.theory   
   From: stumper@newvessel.com   
      
   Hollywood Lee wrote:   
   > stumper wrote:   
   >> Hollywood Lee wrote:   
   >>> stumper wrote:   
   >>>> Hollywood Lee wrote:   
   >>>>> Déjà Fu wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> ps:   
   >>>>>> In our laboratory experiments, our staff has found   
   >>>>>> that the KJV Bible, the Quoran and the Book of Mormon   
   >>>>>> produce virtually the same BTU/hr of heat in a modern,   
   >>>>>> high-efficiency stove. The Torah lags by nearly 40%   
   >>>>>> and is not generally available in motel rooms.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> (sorry, Lee - allah made me do it...:)   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I like Richard Dawkins' (author of the God Delusion among others)   
   >>>>> take on religion:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> --------   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> http://www.wpr.org/book/dawkins.html   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Richard Dawkins talked with Steve Paulson about the dangers of   
   >>>>> unquestioned faith and why he thinks atheists are among the most   
   >>>>> intelligent people.  An excerpt follows:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> . . . .   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Q: My sense is that you don't just think religion is dishonest.   
   >>>>> There's something evil about it as well.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> A: Well, yes. I think there's something very evil about faith,   
   >>>>> where faith means believing in something in the absence of   
   >>>>> evidence, and actually taking pride in believing in something in   
   >>>>> the absence of evidence. And the reason that's dangerous is that it   
   >>>>> justifies essentially anything. If you're taught in your holy book   
   >>>>> or by your priest that blasphemers should die or apostates should   
   >>>>> die -- anybody who once believed in the religion and no longer does   
   >>>>> needs to be killed -- that clearly is evil. And people don't have   
   >>>>> to justify it because it's their faith. They don't have to say,   
   >>>>> "Well, here's a very good reason for this." All they need to say   
   >>>>> is, "That's what my faith says." And we're all expected to back off   
   >>>>> and respect that. Whether or not we're actually faithful ourselves,   
   >>>>> we've been brought up to respect faith and to regard it as   
   >>>>> something that should not be challenged. And that can have   
   >>>>> extremely evil consequences. The consequences it's had historically   
   >>>>> -- the Crusades, the Inquisition, right up to the present time   
   >>>>> where you have suicide bombers and people flying planes into   
   >>>>> skyscrapers in New York -- all in the name of faith.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Q: But don't you need to distinguish between religious extremists   
   >>>>> who kill people and moderate, peaceful religious believers?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> A: You certainly need to distinguish them. They are very different.   
   >>>>> However, the moderate, sensible religious people you've cited make   
   >>>>> the world safe for the extremists by bringing up children --   
   >>>>> sometimes even indoctrinating children -- to believe that faith   
   >>>>> trumps everything and by influencing society to respect faith. Now,   
   >>>>> the faith of these moderate people is in itself harmless. But the   
   >>>>> idea that faith needs to be respected is instilled into children   
   >>>>> sitting in rows in their madrasahs in the Muslim world. And they   
   >>>>> are told these things not by extremists but by decent, moderate   
   >>>>> teachers and mullahs. But when they grow up, a small minority of   
   >>>>> them remember what they were told. They remember reading their holy   
   >>>>> book, and they take it literally. They really do believe it. Now,   
   >>>>> the moderate ones don't really believe it, but they have taught   
   >>>>> children that faith is a virtue. And it only takes a minority to   
   >>>>> believe what it says in the holy book -- the Old Testament, the New   
   >>>>> Testament, the Quran, whatever it is. If you believe it's literally   
   >>>>> true, then there's scarcely any limit to the evil things you might do.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Q: And yet most moderate religious people are appalled by the   
   >>>>> apocalyptic thinking of religious extremists.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> A: Of course they're appalled. They're very decent, nice people.   
   >>>>> But they have no right to be appalled because, in a sense, they   
   >>>>> brought it on the world by teaching people, especially children,   
   >>>>> the virtues of unquestioned faith.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Hear the full interview at   
   >>>>> http://www.wpr.org/book/Richard%20Dawkins.mp3   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> He does not appear to understand faith.   
   >>>> His flat reasoning cannot capture   
   >>>> the depth of human consciousness.   
   >>>   
   >>> Speculation.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>> Most people stop and think of others   
   >>>> because of their faith.   
   >>>   
   >>> And more speculation.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Do you have anything better?   
   >>   
   >   
   > Mango Pie.  Wanna slice?   
      
   Don't get too impressed by appearances.   
      
   --   
   ~Stumper   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)