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|    alt.religion.clergy    |    Tiered system of religious servitude    |    48,662 messages    |
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|    Message 46,663 of 48,662    |
|    James to All    |
|    The ever-virgin not so “ever”?    |
|    01 Jan 18 15:08:38    |
      From: vojavoja@windstream.net              The ever-virgin not so “ever”?              Mary was certainly a righteous person. She was picked out of all the       Jewesses living at that time. She bore the Son of God. She certainly       was blessed.              Joseph had no intercourse with her all the time of her first       pregnancy.       That's right, FIRST pregnancy. God did not punish Joseph by denying       him his marital due after Jesus' birth.              Paul later wrote that marriage couples should not be depriving each       other of it except by mutual consent. And this was certainly true in       Mary's and Joseph's case. (1 Cor 7:1-5)              But wasn't Mary a special case by God? Did God want her to remain       always virgin? The Bible does not anywhere say or hint at that. On the       contrary, the Bible shows she was quite active in bearing Joseph sons       and daughters. She had many other births, which was common for Jewish       women at that time. Notice Mt 1:24,25 . In the Catholic Bible it       reads:              "24. When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded       him and took his wife into his home. 25 He had no relations with her       until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus." (NAB)              Take note of the word “until”. Yes, she bore Joseph his reward for       enduring the nine months, till Jesus was born.              And the Scriptures go on to show that Jesus had many other sibling       brothers and sisters. That same Catholic Bible reads Mt 13:55,56 this       way,              "55. Is he not the carpenter's son? Is not his mother named Mary and       his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?        56. Are not his sisters all with us? Where did this man get all       this?" (NAB)              The context clearly shows that Jesus' home town people that personally       saw him raised as a child, were naming the sibling family members that       they also knew to be a part of Joseph's family.              Also the Greek words used there for "brothers" and "sisters" (adelphai       and adelphoi) have this meaning according to the The New Catholic       Encyclopedia:              "have the meaning of full blood brother and sister in the       Greek-speaking world of the Evangelist's time and would naturally be       taken by his Greek reader in this sense."              Thus unless they are all miraculous births also (which the Bible does       not say at all), there is no reason to believe that Mary gave birth to       those children other than normal sexual relations with her husband,       Joseph, sometime after Jesus was born.              Notice the brief explanation from this publication, and the quotes       from a Catholic encyclopedia:              "Was Mary always a virgin?              Matt. 13:53-56, JB: "When Jesus had finished these parables he left       the district; and, coming to his home town, he taught the people in       their synagogue in such a way that they were astonished and said,       'Where did the man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? This       is the carpenter's son, surely? Is not his mother the woman called       Mary, and his brothers [Greek, adelphoi'] James and Joseph and Simon       and Jude? His sisters [Greek, adelphai'], too, are they not all here       with us?'"              The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, Vol. IX, p. 337) admits regarding       the Greek words adelphoi' and adelphai', used at Matthew 13:55, 56,       that these "have the meaning of full blood brother and sister in the       Greek-speaking world of the Evangelist's time and would naturally be       taken by his Greek reader in this sense. Toward the end of the 4th       century (c. 380) Helvidius in a work now lost pressed this fact in       order to attribute to Mary other children besides Jesus so as to make       her a model for mothers of larger families. St. Jerome, motivated by       the Church's traditional faith in Mary's perpetual virginity, wrote a       tract against Helvidius (A.D. 383) in which he developed an       explanation . . . that is still in vogue among Catholic scholars."              Mark 3:31-35, JB: "His mother and brothers now arrived and, standing       outside, sent in a message asking for him. A crowd was sitting round       him at the time the message was passed to him, 'Your mother and       brothers and sisters are outside asking for you'. He replied, 'Who are       my mother and my brothers?' And looking round at those sitting in a       circle about him, he said, 'Here are my mother and my brothers. Anyone       who does the will of God, that person is my brother and sister and       mother.'" (Here a clear distinction is drawn between Jesus' natural       brothers and his spiritual brothers, his disciples. No one claims that       the reference to Jesus' mother means anything different from what it       says. Is it consistent, then, to reason that his natural brothers were       not that but were perhaps cousins? When what is meant is not brothers       but relatives, a different Greek word [syg·ge·non'] is used, as at       Luke 21:16.) (Reasoning From the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 255-256.)              So to conclude, the Bible shows that Mary had many other sons as well       as daughters. Her virginity was long gone. To pronounce her as       ever-virgin is to call the Bible a liar. Something that the demons       loved to do.       Concerning this, notice this Catholic Bible at 1 Tim 4:1,              -- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha       1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit has explicitly said that during the last       times some will desert the faith and pay attention to deceitful       spirits and doctrines that come from devils,              How the Catholic Church can go against their own Bibles, and teach       this heresy is a mystery to me.              James, John 4:23,24 ,www.jw.org              ---       This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.       https://www.avast.com/antivirus              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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