XPost: alt.fan.tolkien, rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.books.cs-lewis   
   From: hayesstw@telkomsa.net   
      
   On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:21:02 +0100, Troels Forchhammer   
    wrote:   
      
   >In message    
   >Paul S. Person  spoke these staves:   
   >>   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >> An angelic invitation -- and from fallible angelic beings at that.   
   >>   
   >> Only Eru is divine.   
   >   
   >Not in Tolkien's usage. E.g. in letter #131:   
   >   
   >      The cycles begin with a cosmogonical myth: the Music of   
   >    the Ainur. God and the Valar (or powers: Englished as gods)   
   >    are revealed. These latter are as we should say angelic   
   >    powers, whose function is to exercise delegated authority   
   >    in their spheres (of rule and government, not creation,   
   >    making or re-making). They are 'divine', that is, were   
   >    originally 'outside' and existed 'before' the making of the   
   >    world.   
   >   
   >This is but one of many examples showing that Tolkien applied the word   
   >'divine' to the Ainur.   
      
   An instance of Tolkien's traditional (Premodern) Christian framework for his   
   stories, perhaps.   
      
   In the later Middle Ages, beginning with Scholasticism, but especially in   
   modernity, a primary division came to be between "natural" and "supernatural".   
   Men and microbes were "natural", while God, angels, demons, ghosts etc were   
   "supernatural".   
      
   But earlier Christian thought divided them differently -- between Creator and   
   creature.   
      
   The singing Ainur represent a kind of subcreation, and a similar idea was used   
   by C.S. Lewis with the singing stars at the creation of Narnia. But the   
   angels, though they be gods (and therefore "divine") are nonetheless creatures   
   like us, and not the creator, for they themselves are created.   
      
   See Psalm 82, and Deuteronomy 32:8-9, and Job 38:1-7, especially verse 7.   
      
   Perhaps Lewis and Tolkien were both familiar with this hymn   
      
   Stars of the morning, so gloriously bright,   
   Filled with celestial virtue and light,   
   These that, where night never followeth day,   
   Praise the Thrice Holy One ever and aye.   
      
   These are thy ministers, these dost thou own,   
   Lord God of Sabaoth, nearest thy throne;   
   these are thy messengers, these dost thou send,   
   Help of the helpless ones! man to defend.   
      
   These keep the guard amidst Salem's dear bowers,   
   Thrones, Principalities, Virtues and Powers,   
   where, with the Living Ones, mystical Four,   
   Cherubim, Seraphim, bow and adore.   
      
   "Who like the Lord?" thunders Michael the chief;   
   Raphael, "the cure of God," comforteth grief;   
   and, as at Nazareth, prophet of peace,   
   Gabriel, "the light of God," bringeth release.   
      
   Then, when the earth was first poised in mid space,   
   then, when the planets first sped on their race,   
   then, when were ended the six days' employ,   
   then all the sons of God shouted for joy.   
      
   Still let them succor us; still let them fight,   
   Lord of angelic hosts, battling for right;   
   Till, where their anthems they ceaselessly pour,   
   We with the angels may bow and adore.   
      
   --   
   Steve Hayes   
   Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm   
        http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw   
        http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)